Why are Harleys cool?

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Re: Why are Harleys cool?

#261 Unread post by Markg1 » Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:10 am

I'm seeing all these cars on a motorycylce forum. I thought this thread was titled " why are Harleys cool?" Hmm...so alot of you guys don't like techology but some of these cars that you have posted have every advanced suspensions. So since this thread has taken a new twist I will add my own. I love techology. All of you guys who ride sport bikes have top of the line suspensions...so dont give me that you don't like technology! Most of us ride with a helmet and are always looking for the best and most technologically advanced motorcylce wear that money can buy! And if you think that technology is not important part of motorcyle saftey then your asking for trouble! You might as well ride with shorts, flip flops and a short sleeve shirt! One person actually said that you prefer non-ABS vs ABS...REALLY? Not me! I'm actually thinking of selling my non ABS vrod for a vrod that has ABS. My vmax has ABS and a much more advanced suspension than my vrod and I can feel the difference! I'm all for anything that gives me an advantage! See for yourself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Zv3Sacl ... re=related
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Re: Why are Harleys cool?

#262 Unread post by Kingshead » Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:54 am

Have you ever watched "Top Gear", they did an episode with a Mercedes with 850hp and the traction control system was totally overwhelmed to the point where the Stig had a hard time keeping it under control. The system couldn't be overidden and the lap times suffered to the point where many inferior cars in less capable hands bettered it. There must be a reason why race cars don't use it, just like front wheel drive. This has also been foisted on the public as safer and better. In the hands of a real driver the non ABS car will always win out. It's only advantage might be on ice or other such surfaces. And even then, with cars designed to run on ice and snow the non ABS cars still win, watch the winter rally championships sometime.

These cars pictured are running double wishbone suspensions that have been around for 60yrs or more. Advanced for economy cars but not true sports cars like Jaguar, Porsche, Ferrari etc. I've been driving true handling cars since the 1970's and they still haven't been able to improve on the designs other than metalurgey techniques. Even the Formula 1 cars are still using this type of set up, so I guess you could call it advanced, just not modern. The normal everyday driver totally out of synch with the driving experience may benefit from ABS as he's practically asleep at the wheel anyways. That's not me, and definitely not why I ride a motorcycle either. I'd be willing to bet the racing bikes don't have it either.

The video is totally meaningless. Two different riders and they definitely had an agenda. Put the same, unbiased, top professional rider on each bike and the results would be much different. Heck, it didn't even appear to be identical bikes, WTF. Totally a staged video.

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Last edited by Kingshead on Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why are Harleys cool?

#263 Unread post by Markg1 » Sat Apr 09, 2011 3:11 pm

Our very own Al Unser from NEW MEXICO was the 1970 Indianaplois 500 pole sitter at 170.221 mph

Helio Castroneves, 2010 indianapolis 500 pole sitter at 227.97 mph

No technology here!

The effect of antilock braking systems (ABS) on motorcyclist fatal crash risk during 2003-08 was studied by comparing fatal crash rates per registrations of motorcycles with and without ABS. Study motorcycles included those for which ABS was optional equipment and could be identified as present by the vehicle identification number. Fatal motorcycle crashes per 10,000 registered vehicle years were 37 percent lower for ABS models than for their non-ABS versions. (reported by IIHS) Maybe this one was staged.



I really starting to like that HARLEY FAT BOB! Does it come with ABS?
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Re: Why are Harleys cool?

#264 Unread post by Kingshead » Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:40 am

Markg1 wrote:Our very own Al Unser from NEW MEXICO was the 1970 Indianaplois 500 pole sitter at 170.221 mph

Helio Castroneves, 2010 indianapolis 500 pole sitter at 227.97 mph
No technology here!

The effect of antilock braking systems (ABS) on motorcyclist fatal crash risk during 2003-08 was studied by comparing fatal crash rates per registrations of motorcycles with and without ABS. Study motorcycles included those for which ABS was optional equipment and could be identified as present by the vehicle identification number. Fatal motorcycle crashes per 10,000 registered vehicle years were 37 percent lower for ABS models than for their non-ABS versions. (reported by IIHS) Maybe this one was staged.




I really starting to like that HARLEY FAT BOB! Does it come with ABS?

I guess this has nothing to do with aerodynamics, tire technology advancements, engine improvements, it's all suspension design, riiiiight. I do believe it was suspensions you were talking about in your first post wasn't it? Or have you decided that was a lost case so now you are grasping at straws and any and all technological advancements prove your point for you. Don't you think it might also have something to do with improved track conditions? Don't you think driver skill might have advanced in 40yrs? Or did the improved times in running the mile only come from better running shoes too.

If you will notice my bike has no rear suspension at all. This has pros and cons as do all systems on our machines. The hardtail helps put more power to the pavement just as it does for drag cars, it helps to eliminate wallowing side to side in corners from suspension flex, it eliminates the torquing affect of a shaft drive bike. Yes it has it's negative aspects as well but I choose to prefer the hardtail setup, and who are you to try to decide what is best for another rider. Just because you choose to rely on ABS to protect your butt and I choose to rely on my skills as a rider is absolutely none of your business. If I decide to ride without a helmet this is also none of your business, so just mind your own, I think it will keep you well enough occupied.

I think I said equal riders, as in the same rider. Oranges taste different than apples too, they did 100yrs ago and they will 100yrs from now. So lets keep comparing these too. Could it also be attributed to the fact that the ABS models were owned by people who didn't ride their bikes at 90 mph down the highway doing a wheelie, or racing at 170+ mph? Numbers can be skewed to say anything your agenda wants them to say. I live in the real world and don't have my head in the sand being spoon fed whatever the government safety regulatory commissions want me to believe.

I'll take a true drivers car with a soul over these formless eggs that have been foisted on the public any day.

Martin
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Re: Why are Harleys cool?

#265 Unread post by Markg1 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 8:49 am

Hey relax, it's a forum with a friendly discussion. I'm not attacking you or your bike. I don't even know you. I just so happen to like what technology has done and it's apart of everybody's life. (oh and so is your government!) And as far as taking precautions to save my life...absolutely! I enjoy my life and will take every advantage I can get to stick around here just a little longer regardless of what anybody thinks! Oh one last thing, If you what to ride without a helmet " knock yourself out"!

I still think that fat bob is cool! Anybody out there have one?
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Re: Why are Harleys cool?

#266 Unread post by Wrider » Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:09 pm

The thing is, ANY professional rider/driver will tell you that if push comes to shove, you can stop faster with ABS 99.9% of the time.
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Re: Why are Harleys cool?

#267 Unread post by Kingshead » Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:31 pm

Wrider wrote:The thing is, ANY professional rider/driver will tell you that if push comes to shove, you can stop faster with ABS 99.9% of the time.
Well I haven't asked 99.9% of the pro's and I really doubt you have either. But in any case, even if what you say in the off chance is true, what happens when it fails when you are depending on it. These things do fail and when they do, just like power steering it doesn't just revert to being the same as not having it, it fails in a way that is always something far inferior.

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Re: Why are Harleys cool?

#268 Unread post by Wrider » Sun Apr 10, 2011 4:45 pm

Whoa boy, never said I did. I said ask any pro driver/rider and they'll tell you that ABS outperforms humans 99.9% of the time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Zv3Sacl7JQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6kO6ltk3a0
The first one is Honda's comparison video and I agree is over-exaggerated.
The second one is using three guys to test the 2009 Honda CBR1000RR with and without ABS. One of the riders is MCN's professional performance benchmarker, the second one is a Superstock racer and street rider, the third one I didn't get his credentials other than he rides a K1200.
All agree ABS is superior and more stable, and all three had better braking times with ABS versus without, even though ABS adds more weight.
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Re: Why are Harleys cool?

#269 Unread post by Kingshead » Sun Apr 10, 2011 5:30 pm

Your right, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, you did say any, which impies all, just thought giving you an out was warranted but if you don't want it be my guest. You do know when saying all, ever, or any, it automatically makes it a false statement.

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Re: Why are Harleys cool?

#270 Unread post by Markg1 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:07 pm

Wrider wrote:The thing is, ANY professional rider/driver will tell you that if push comes to shove, you can stop faster with ABS 99.9% of the time.
I agree with you 100%! The thing about ABS is the computer will analyze the conditions 1000 times per second. We as humans can't even come close, in particular in a panic! I used to race dirt bikes as a kid and feel that I'm a good rider. I have had some close calls and have been lucky, but I'll take every advantage I can get! I'm curious, do most people use their front break or rear break more?
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Re: Why are Harleys cool?

#271 Unread post by Markg1 » Sun Apr 10, 2011 6:35 pm

Kingshead wrote:Your right, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, you did say any, which impies all, just thought giving you an out was warranted but if you don't want it be my guest. You do know when saying all, ever, or any, it automatically makes it a false statement.

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Re: Why are Harleys cool?

#272 Unread post by Kingshead » Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:08 pm

No, in the context used, any means all. If one was picked at random and no matter what, the answer would be the same, this means all.

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Re: Why are Harleys cool?

#273 Unread post by Gummiente » Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:19 pm

Ok, you two, let's take the English language debate to PM's.
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Re: Why are Harleys cool?

#274 Unread post by JC Viper » Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:28 am

Ahh, the Brits already did a nice study on the use of ABS in a magazine, either Visor Down or BIKE. All I can remember is the chart showing that ABS had the lowest braking distance compared to both brakes, front only and rear only. Though many of them would turn it off when taking their bikes off road should a bike have that option.

The one who rode was/ is a professional rider.

always something interesting with those publications. I've stopped reading the US based magazines for any real info on riding.
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Re: Why are Harleys cool?

#275 Unread post by Grey Thumper » Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:34 am

The whole "electronic assistance" (ABS, traction control, etc) issue is pretty interesting on its own. Interesting enough to start a separate thread on it?
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Re: Why are Harleys cool?

#276 Unread post by High_Side » Mon Apr 11, 2011 6:50 am

Grey Thumper wrote:The whole "electronic assistance" (ABS, traction control, etc) issue is pretty interesting on its own. Interesting enough to start a separate thread on it?
Done. A new thread has been started in Motorcycle Talk.

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Re: Why are Harleys cool?

#277 Unread post by totalmotorcycle » Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:22 am

High_Side wrote:
Grey Thumper wrote:The whole "electronic assistance" (ABS, traction control, etc) issue is pretty interesting on its own. Interesting enough to start a separate thread on it?
Done. A new thread has been started in Motorcycle Talk.
Great idea. I posted there about it just now too. :D

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Re: Why are Harleys cool?

#278 Unread post by momule » Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:56 am

I have a problem with your initial premise, that they are cool. Harleys were a lot cooler when they were made by the same company that makes bowling balls.
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Re: Why are Harleys cool?

#279 Unread post by dr_bar » Fri Aug 03, 2012 10:46 am

Wow, resurected this puppy to start another flame war???

I'll agree with some of the early posters on this thread, Harley's have two wheels, ergo they are cool. I admire the bikes and the brand, and you can't fault Harley on their marketing, probably the best in the business. Would I buy one, no, I have never had the desire to own one, but that doesn't mean I don't respect or like them...
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Re: Why are Harleys cool?

#280 Unread post by BRUMBEAR » Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:38 pm

there aint nothin like it

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