Fellow Riders:
Do any of you use Pirelli Diablos, Metzeler Z6's, or Michelin Pilots?
How are they in the wet? Do they communicate to you before they break loose? Decent mileage?
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p.s. my riding is 'vigorous' sport-touring and commuting. My bike is 540lbs wet, 150bhp. I live in western Canada.
Daiblos vs. Metzeler vs. Michelin: what works best?
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spiritusnoctem
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Daiblos vs. Metzeler vs. Michelin: what works best?
Paul
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QuietMonkey
- Legendary 750
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The Pilot's are good in the wet. I've ridden and raced in the rain on earlier Metzeler's in the past, but not the new stuff. The earlier metzelers including MEZs used to be a favourite. really good feedback.
i've also done lots of miles on nearly bald tires, and often in the rain... lots of fun seeing how well tires work in various conditions... narrower tires work well, but newer sport bikes with lots of HP and wider (180) rears can have problems when tread gets low.
Most of riding in the wet is rider experience and confidence, good smooth control use, etc... and not getting too crazy with the throttle when cranked over. You can learn alot about how much traction is really available by riding in the wet... and it teaches you to be smoooooooth. Throttle control.
The fun part is with any current liter bike, you never have enough traction wet or dry... so it's best to take some advanced riding courses and learn to be smooth with the controls.
The Z6 is a totally new tire, biased towards Sport Touring. See here:
http://www.sportrider.com/tech/tires/metzeler_roadtec/
It's always a balance between MILEAGE, TRACTION, FEEL, etc... new advances every few years improve tires in large ways... radials, silica, etc... A couple important things with rain, is that the tires with silica compounds work very good in wet and dry, and the silica is a great step up from earlier tires. Often the most critical thing in a heavy downpour is simply have lots of tread grooves to help channel the water away. A nice NEW tire (with just a little mileage on it to scrub it in) and 'sharp' tread works very effectively in heavy rain and standing water. Compare the treads face to face you'll notice how supersport/prodi race tires are more like slicks nowadays, thus not as good in heavy rain, due to their inability to channel water away from the tire.
BTW: Pirelli and Metzeler merged a few years ago and many of their tires are essentially identical... same designs made in different factories. The new Z6 is likely a very good tire. i see this blurb in there text .. the claims are pretty large:
"The innovative new front and rear tread patterns, with improved land/sea ratios, are designed to work together for enhanced water drainage. The result is 30% better wet handling and grip than the MEZ4 (again based on Metzeler testing), better feedback in the wet - a sense of being connected" to the road, more confidence in wet cornering, excellent grip and traction in all conditions, combined with extended mileage."
No worries for choice, i'd say. I would choose Michelin easily (based upon feedback from friends who are currently racing. Michelin's rain tires are A1, the Pilot Sports are GREAT street tires), and the Metzeler Z6 just as easily based past experience and on the newer design and their design claim for higher mileage. On the street if you want the extra mileage. The Diablos are like the MEZ4 Rennsports I believe (the earlier design).
//monkey
i've also done lots of miles on nearly bald tires, and often in the rain... lots of fun seeing how well tires work in various conditions... narrower tires work well, but newer sport bikes with lots of HP and wider (180) rears can have problems when tread gets low.
Most of riding in the wet is rider experience and confidence, good smooth control use, etc... and not getting too crazy with the throttle when cranked over. You can learn alot about how much traction is really available by riding in the wet... and it teaches you to be smoooooooth. Throttle control.
The fun part is with any current liter bike, you never have enough traction wet or dry... so it's best to take some advanced riding courses and learn to be smooth with the controls.
The Z6 is a totally new tire, biased towards Sport Touring. See here:
http://www.sportrider.com/tech/tires/metzeler_roadtec/
It's always a balance between MILEAGE, TRACTION, FEEL, etc... new advances every few years improve tires in large ways... radials, silica, etc... A couple important things with rain, is that the tires with silica compounds work very good in wet and dry, and the silica is a great step up from earlier tires. Often the most critical thing in a heavy downpour is simply have lots of tread grooves to help channel the water away. A nice NEW tire (with just a little mileage on it to scrub it in) and 'sharp' tread works very effectively in heavy rain and standing water. Compare the treads face to face you'll notice how supersport/prodi race tires are more like slicks nowadays, thus not as good in heavy rain, due to their inability to channel water away from the tire.
BTW: Pirelli and Metzeler merged a few years ago and many of their tires are essentially identical... same designs made in different factories. The new Z6 is likely a very good tire. i see this blurb in there text .. the claims are pretty large:
"The innovative new front and rear tread patterns, with improved land/sea ratios, are designed to work together for enhanced water drainage. The result is 30% better wet handling and grip than the MEZ4 (again based on Metzeler testing), better feedback in the wet - a sense of being connected" to the road, more confidence in wet cornering, excellent grip and traction in all conditions, combined with extended mileage."
No worries for choice, i'd say. I would choose Michelin easily (based upon feedback from friends who are currently racing. Michelin's rain tires are A1, the Pilot Sports are GREAT street tires), and the Metzeler Z6 just as easily based past experience and on the newer design and their design claim for higher mileage. On the street if you want the extra mileage. The Diablos are like the MEZ4 Rennsports I believe (the earlier design).
//monkey
"Zounds! Zorched by Zarches, Spaceman Spiff's crippled craft crashes on planet Plootarg!"
For Sale: Ninja 600 with parts bike, needs minor work, $30, no title... (GEE THAT DOESNT RING ANY WARNING BELLS DOES IT?)
For Sale: Ninja 600 with parts bike, needs minor work, $30, no title... (GEE THAT DOESNT RING ANY WARNING BELLS DOES IT?)
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gsJack
- Legendary 500
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What tires are we talking about? 
A Z6 is a Z6 and always a Z6, but Diablos and Pilots come in many different flavors.
A plain Diablo is a sport tire while a Diablo Corsa is a track/street supersport type tire. The new Diablo Strada is a sport touring tire and is reported to be same as the Z6 except for tread pattern. Have heard current Diablo Stradas are marked Made in Germany.
The Pilot Sports are a sport tire while the Pilot Roads are sport touring tires. The Pilot Sports have been replaced by the new Pilot Powers recently. There are also several Pilot Race tires that come in different compounds.
The Z6 and the Diablo Strada and the Pilot Roads are in the same sport touring class for direct comparison. Excellent combinations of grip and tire life for most except those riding at the limit all the time. With the new tire compounds developed in recent years, these newer sport touring tires exceed the sport tires of a decade ago in both grip and tire life. I like the Avon AV45/46 ST tires myself.
A Z6 is a Z6 and always a Z6, but Diablos and Pilots come in many different flavors.A plain Diablo is a sport tire while a Diablo Corsa is a track/street supersport type tire. The new Diablo Strada is a sport touring tire and is reported to be same as the Z6 except for tread pattern. Have heard current Diablo Stradas are marked Made in Germany.
The Pilot Sports are a sport tire while the Pilot Roads are sport touring tires. The Pilot Sports have been replaced by the new Pilot Powers recently. There are also several Pilot Race tires that come in different compounds.
The Z6 and the Diablo Strada and the Pilot Roads are in the same sport touring class for direct comparison. Excellent combinations of grip and tire life for most except those riding at the limit all the time. With the new tire compounds developed in recent years, these newer sport touring tires exceed the sport tires of a decade ago in both grip and tire life. I like the Avon AV45/46 ST tires myself.
407,211 miles in 30.1 years for 13,528 miles/year average. Started 7/21/84, updated 8/26/14
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Toyuzu
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Jack,gsJack wrote:What tires are we talking about?
A plain Diablo is a sport tire while a Diablo Corsa is a track/street supersport type tire. The new Diablo Strada is a sport touring tire and is reported to be same as the Z6 except for tread pattern. Have heard current Diablo Stradas are marked Made in Germany.
The Pilot Sports are a sport tire while the Pilot Roads are sport touring tires. The Pilot Sports have been replaced by the new Pilot Powers recently. There are also several Pilot Race tires that come in different compounds.
The Z6 and the Diablo Strada and the Pilot Roads are in the same sport touring class for direct comparison. Excellent combinations of grip and tire life for most except those riding at the limit all the time. With the new tire compounds developed in recent years, these newer sport touring tires exceed the sport tires of a decade ago in both grip and tire life. I like the Avon AV45/46 ST tires myself.
Are you a paid motorcycle tire research analyst? I can't think of anyone else who might posess that much information about that many different brands of motorcycle tires.
[i]Only the dead have seen the end of war. (Plato)[/i]
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gsJack
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I retired 10 years ago at age 62 and work no longer interferes with my riding.
Although I didn't take my first ride till age 52, I have riden about 330k miles since then and tires have always been a large part of my riding expense and I tend to gather all the info I can get on them. Always looking for the best tire performance for the buck.
I've used sport touring radials the past 3 years and they give the best milage/performance combination for my modestly powered bikes and my 15-20k mile per year of riding. A Z4/Z2 combo for 2 years and then a set of the AV45/46 tires last year.
Would love to try the sport/supersport radials but would require too many sets a year. Besides, I've been trying to slow down a bit for the past year or so.
Although I didn't take my first ride till age 52, I have riden about 330k miles since then and tires have always been a large part of my riding expense and I tend to gather all the info I can get on them. Always looking for the best tire performance for the buck.
I've used sport touring radials the past 3 years and they give the best milage/performance combination for my modestly powered bikes and my 15-20k mile per year of riding. A Z4/Z2 combo for 2 years and then a set of the AV45/46 tires last year.
Would love to try the sport/supersport radials but would require too many sets a year. Besides, I've been trying to slow down a bit for the past year or so.
407,211 miles in 30.1 years for 13,528 miles/year average. Started 7/21/84, updated 8/26/14