i dropped my bike...

[Sev]

I just want to point out one quick little thing.

A lot of tires have softer belts and stickier rubber towards the edges (not the middle) for improved cornering. Meaning you're supposed to lean it over, and it will stick better in a turn like that.

The middle is a tougher rubber, and a thicker belt which means it's less likely to deform, and will take longer to wear down, because lets face it... unless you're racing (and even if you are) you're probably going to spend more time going straight then turning.

[Mr_Salad]

nope i don't mind, that's a very informative post. thanks.

do you race?

And the truth comes out...

Just kidding.

So I have to agree with PHumane on this one. And I had a question for him regarding the physics. I think that leaning off the bike would actually give you less traction. Simply because traction comes from the friction between the tire and the road surface. The amount of friction is defined by the friction coefficient and the normal force from the road. When you lean off the bike, you are moving your weight (downward force) further from the tire and most importantly lower to the ground. So the lateral force from the turn and your body weight is lower on the bike than if you had not leaned your "o-ring" off. When you do the "tip/slip" analysis, this makes for more of a "slip" situation because you have less of a normal force (even though it is a very minimal amount) pushing down and thus less of a friction force. Less friction means less traction and your "o-ring" is going to be more likely to lowside if you came into the turn too hot.

Is this a correct assumption, or am I overanalyzing. You could also argue that the normal force from your body is the same amount, regardless of its position. I, however, cannot ignore this lateral location.

Look forward to another perspective.

[Posthumane]

The normal force is indeed always the same regardless of the Cg's lateral position. When you move the Cg laterally in relation to the contact patch (support point) it does not impart any lateral force on the tire, so all the force is still in the normal direction. What it does impart is a turning moment about the contact patch which causes the bike to lean. If the bike kept going in a straight line, it would continue leaning until it hit the ground. But since it starts turning towards the side that the Cg is now on, you have a lateral force acting on the contact patch towards the inside of the turn, producing a lateral acceleration. This lateral acceleration on the Cg is what balances the "leaning" moment caused by the gravitational force on the Cg.... sorry, it's hard to explain without a diagram...

Code: Select all

                                     Gravity
                                             |
                                             |
                                            \/
              Lateral force (inertia) ---->  Cg
                                              \
                                               \
                                                \
                                               Tire    <------- friction
                                                /\
                                                 |
                                                 |
                                            Ground

[jonnythan]

Think of it this way:

The bike is not accelerating in the vertical direction during a sustained turn. Therefore, the weight of the bike is balanced out by the normal force from the road.

The only acceleration is towards the inside of the turn (assuming constant speed), so the only net force is directly perpendicular to the normal force... along the surface of the road.


Also think of it like this:

For a given turn radius/speed, the force of friction (traction) required to make the turn is the same no matter the orientation of the bike, because the net force on the bike is the same.

[shane-o]

Hate to butt in on your bickering but why is everyone fueling the fire? If Verm wants to ride the way he does then let him, he's the one who looks foolish on a bike not you guys. He has been given constructive criticsm and has chosen not to take it, so let it go. There, theres my two cents worth.

my concern is that VX hands out advice and opinions on various aspects of riding technique that I find questionable, to say the least, in their validity.

If people who dont know alot about riding, who click into here for some advice and tips on how better to improve their skills, and they read half of what VX writes, I fear they will be mislead, thus putting themselves in danger.


Thats why I respond to VX's post's, so that those who are doing the right thing by learning as much as they can, are not too ill informed.


not a flame

[VermilionX]

my concern is that VX hands out advice and opinions on various aspects of riding technique that I find questionable, to say the least, in their validity.

If people who dont know alot about riding, who click into here for some advice and tips on how better to improve their skills, and they read half of what VX writes, I fear they will be mislead, thus putting themselves in danger.


Thats why I respond to VX's post's, so that those who are doing the right thing by learning as much as they can, are not too ill informed.


not a flame

misleading eh?

that's fine... i will never give riding tips on this forum then.

that's fair enough, i guess.

[shane-o]

my concern is that VX hands out advice and opinions on various aspects of riding technique that I find questionable, to say the least, in their validity.

If people who dont know alot about riding, who click into here for some advice and tips on how better to improve their skills, and they read half of what VX writes, I fear they will be mislead, thus putting themselves in danger.


Thats why I respond to VX's post's, so that those who are doing the right thing by learning as much as they can, are not too ill informed.


not a flame

misleading eh?

that's fine... i will never give riding tips on this forum then.

that's fair enough, i guess.

its just my opinion mate, and im probably a minority, so dont get to upset with me

Your a fringe dweller, and there is nothing wrong with that, your a unique individual, if we were all the same the world would be uber boring.

But

Riding a motorcycle is not a video game, you do not get 3 lives, and there is very little room for error on public roads. How can so many people be rong on this forum when discussing things that you have stated ???? think about it


stay safe

[VermilionX]

its just my opinion mate, and im probably a minority, so dont get to upset with me

Your a fringe dweller, and there is nothing wrong with that, your a unique individual, if we were all the same the world would be uber boring.

But

Riding a motorcycle is not a video game, you do not get 3 lives, and there is very little room for error on public roads. How can so many people be rong on this forum when discussing things that you have stated ???? think about it


stay safe

not upset all... your point is valid.

and like i said, i don't push it too far in the canyons...

best example are blind corners, which is almost all the right handers BTW. eventhough i've taken them so many times... i don't take it as fast as i can since i can't see the whole turn.

[m1a1dvr]

I think he should just learn how to corner without hanging off of the corners. Then once he can do that. He should start leaning off of the seat little bit by little bit.

[VermilionX]

I think he should just learn how to corner without hanging off of the corners. Then once he can do that. He should start leaning off of the seat little bit by little bit.

like i said, i only started hanging off last month.

i did not hang off while cornering before. i can do it w/o hanging off but im much better when i do hang off.