Counter steering question

[longrider]

I saw an 80 year old lady who weighed maybe 90 lbs. riding a full dress Harley on the beach at Datona. Counter steering is the only way to go.
Longrider

[ronboskz650sr]

Take a look at my avatar. This turn was initiated with countersteering, but is being modified by additional steering inputs due to throttle manipulation and trail braking. Chris took this today. Hope it helps.

[jeff_connors]

Thanks Ron. Good words! I take a curvy road that is 35 MPH just for practice. I do both counter-steering and leaning. I did notice CS is quicker and takes the least effort. Leaning works too. It's been said that everyone CS but I swear that I can put no force on the bars and just lean to turn but I trust the experts that I'm nuts. Now I'm right and they are wrong subject...the guy at the soccer game knew what he was talking about but just did not express himself correctly...me thinks. He said "push right, turn left" and vice versa. He must have thought push right, wheel turns left and bike turns right. Counter being it goes the opposite direction of the push or wheel turn.

Another question. If all these bikes act differently, why don't they mention how they react in turns when they are reviewing them. I don't recall seeing anything on it. Seems like more people would be happier with their rides if dealers had more demos to test and reviews were more comprehensive. I have only been riding about a month with my Rebel and love it...but have already started to look for another bike. The dealer wants me to buy anything and EVERY bike will be "great" for me! Right.

[ronboskz650sr]

Jeff, there is one other thing I wanted to mention. The total lean angle you use is a combination of factors, too. Look again at my avatar, and you'll see my knee is still out and I'm slightly off the seat as I roll out of this turn. Hanging off or leaning out or knee dragging, ar any combination of these will reduce the amount of lean the bike has to do. That's why you'll see the racers hang off just before they initiate the turn, so their body is in position and won't upset the bike in the turn. It all flows together eventually. This picture was taken in a secluded area with no traffic, and he caught me as I was rolling out of the tight turn. I never even approached the traction limit, or scraped anything, even though the speed was excessive for the situation. There aren't any traffic situations I can think of that require even so much as a knee out of place in everyday street riding. I keep mine right up against the tank in real life.

[TheReaper]

Hey gang, this is a great topic so I wanted to respond to not only get it back to the top where a new rider can find it but to also ask some questions as it's still a new subject for me.

So, I've read about 100 pages of proficient motorcycling and he's covered countersteering. After reading that, this forum and a couple different articles I understand to be countersteering to be, at it's simplest, the idea of turning the front wheel opposite the direction you want to turn.

My question here is, is there a way to practice this other than on the road? I took a trip out last night and was really trying to be conscious about it, however the roads by my house are so gentle and laid back that it's hard to actively practice countersteering.

Also, are there times other than just initiating a turn where this comes into play?

[iwannadie]

look at my above post. its easy to practice counter steering without moving, or at least get the feel for it more. other than that find a big parking lot. or just weave in your lane(no cars is helpfull).

Hey gang, this is a great topic so I wanted to respond to not only get it back to the top where a new rider can find it but to also ask some questions as it's still a new subject for me.

So, I've read about 100 pages of proficient motorcycling and he's covered countersteering. After reading that, this forum and a couple different articles I understand to be countersteering to be, at it's simplest, the idea of turning the front wheel opposite the direction you want to turn.

My question here is, is there a way to practice this other than on the road? I took a trip out last night and was really trying to be conscious about it, however the roads by my house are so gentle and laid back that it's hard to actively practice countersteering.

Also, are there times other than just initiating a turn where this comes into play?

[TheReaper]

Does countersteering involve any more than simply being aware of how your utilizing the handlebars? Reading the book Hough hinted that the concept of countersteering isn't necessarily as simple as that.

[kyle]

My question here is, is there a way to practice this other than on the road?

Yes, if the bike is still and you have it upright, even with your feet on the pavement, if you push on the right handlebar, you will feel the bike lean to the right, and vice versa with the left. But you really won't get a feel for it unless the bike is in motion.

I took a trip out last night and was really trying to be conscious about it, however the roads by my house are so gentle and laid back that it's hard to actively practice countersteering.

Also, are there times other than just initiating a turn where this comes into play?

Have you taken the MSF Basic Rider course? They cover and you experience countersteering in great detail, and maybe my impression is just plain wrong, but from the way you talk it doesn't sound like you've taken the course... (?)

That said, you can experience countersteering even on straight roads, where initiating a turn does not come into play... its called swerving. Swerving is defined as two consecutive countersteering maneuvers, one to one direction, the next in the opposite direction, putting you back on course.

You absolutely MUST know how to do this if you're going to ride a motorcycle. Hitting a possum in a car is no big deal.. on a bike it can be fatal to you.

If you have taken the MSF course, go practice your swerving in a parking lot like they showed you. If you haven't, do so. If you can't because classes are full, go buy some tennis balls and cut them in half, and set yourself up a little obstacle course in a parking lot and practice swerving, practice countersteering, practice emergency stops, practice swerving some more, and practice countersteering some more. And when you're done, do it again.

There's bound to be a website out there with dimensions on where you should set the tennis ball halves for practice.... if I had a site offhand, I'd link it for you, but a websearch should yield the appropriate results.

Good luck, and be safe!

[TheReaper]

Going through the course next week. Classroom tues, riding portion over memorial weekend.

I go up to the local parking lot tomorrow and practice some more. I feel i've got the idea down, just want to make sure I'm working on it and making it a good habit. I did sit on the bike tonight and just moved the bars and saw how the bike reacted. I think it's been stated in earlier post though, on most roads the turns are so gentle it's hard to tell if you're doing it or not.

[kyle]

Going through the course next week. Classroom tues, riding portion over memorial weekend.

I go up to the local parking lot tomorrow and practice some more. I feel i've got the idea down, just want to make sure I'm working on it and making it a good habit. I did sit on the bike tonight and just moved the bars and saw how the bike reacted. I think it's been stated in earlier post though, on most roads the turns are so gentle it's hard to tell if you're doing it or not.

Awesome! You've already been on your bike, and so had I by the time I took my class, so you're going to be a little ahead of the curve the first hour or two out on the course, but I still had a blast... betting you will, too.

Keep us posted!