slowing down -- downshift, brake, or both?

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tortus · #1 Unread post by **tortus** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:19 pm

I searched on this but didn't really find much.

When I need to stop in my car I almost always push the clutch in and just use the brake. It seems most people do it this way. Sometimes I will downshift my way to first, but I usually don't bother.

But what about bikes?

Pulling in the clutch and braking to a stop just seems wrong to me. The bike sounds strange when it's just coasting. And it seems like a bike should be more ready to spring back into action if need be. Also my manual specifically states to not coast for too long as then the transmission doesn't get lubricated, but it doesn't specify what is "too long".

So what I've been doing is braking and downshifting when coming to a stop. The bike sounds "happier" that way and I dunno, just seems right.

What is "the right way" here? Is it bad to use downshifting to actually slow down the bike? (As opposed to just downshifting as the brake slows you down to keep the transmission in sync with the bike's speed)

#2 Unread post by **fireguzzi** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:37 pm

When I am coming to a leisurely stop,(stops signs and such) I downshift and use engine braking AND use the brakes. I usually get to about 3rd or2nd gear before I pull the clutch in and rely on just brakes. When doing a emergency or aggressive stop I Just pull the clutch and go all brakes.

Gadjet · #3 Unread post by **Gadjet** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:41 pm

Whether I'm on the bike or in the car, I do both. I will downshift and use compression braking for the majority of my deceleration, then use the brakes for the final stop.

For a fast stop, I'll just pull in the clutch and brake my way to a stop while my foot pounds down through the gears to first.

For the car, I'll mash in the clutch and brake as hard as I can without locking up till I'm almost at a stop, then gently ease up on the brakes so that I come to a gentle stop with as little 'jerk' as possible. Then I'll shift it into first.

RideYourRide · Wed Apr 25, 2007 2:57 pm

I always use both all the way down to zero. I "blip" the throttle as I downshift also. (My machine doesn't have a slipper clutch. Even if it did it's such a habitual thing I'd probably do it anyway.)

One good thing about doing this is you're always in gear and ready if for some reason you need to get back off the brakes and screw on it.

shane-o · #5 Unread post by **shane-o** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 3:14 pm

use both, engine and brake

here is a test for you

find a marker (ie spot on the road, sign post etc) approach it at 20-25mph (second gear), pull the clutch in and brake firmly to stop in as short as possible distance as you can with out throwing your self off your bike or locking the front wheel
(use front brake for this exercise). check the stopping distance.

now

do the same thing again, but this time dont use the clutch, just apply the front brake, you can clutch just as you come to a halt to prevent stalling but stalling doent matter for this...now check your brake distance..ill gaurentee its probably near half the distance with the second application.

engine and brake at the same time is the most effective stopping power you have.

Phat_J · #6 Unread post by **Phat_J** » Wed Apr 25, 2007 4:50 pm

if its real leisurely I usually only use the brake, but may shift down to match my gear to my speed similar to when Im driving my car. A long while ago I was told like this about my car: Do you want to change your brakes more often or your clutch? I decided brakes.

Ian522 · #7 Unread post by **Ian522** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:08 am

I downshift every gear when coming to a stop and let the engine do most of the work. But its important to also at least lightly apply the brakes so people behind can see your brake light and realize you are slowing down.

scan · #8 Unread post by **scan** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 1:48 am

Here are a couple great threads where we discussed this very topic -

http://totalmotorcycle.com/BBS/viewtopi ... ne+braking

viewtopic.php?t=14247&highlight=downshifting

viewtopic.php?t=12561&highlight=downshifting

viewtopic.php?t=11968&highlight=downshifting

viewtopic.php?t=10271&highlight=downshifting

viewtopic.php?t=9488&highlight=downshifting

All very good information.

jonnythan · #9 Unread post by **jonnythan** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:04 am

shane-o wrote:use both, engine and brake

here is a test for you

find a marker (ie spot on the road, sign post etc) approach it at 20-25mph (second gear), pull the clutch in and brake firmly to stop in as short as possible distance as you can with out throwing your self off your bike or locking the front wheel
(use front brake for this exercise). check the stopping distance.

now

do the same thing again, but this time dont use the clutch, just apply the front brake, you can clutch just as you come to a halt to prevent stalling but stalling doent matter for this...now check your brake distance..ill gaurentee its probably near half the distance with the second application.

engine and brake at the same time is the most effective stopping power you have.

Why aren't you using the rear brake? Obviously the second exercise will stop you in a shorter distance, but:

1) In the second exercise, you are braking at the rear wheel as well as the front wheel, as opposed to just the front wheel in the first.
2) The braking distance will probably be much closer to 1/4 or 1/3 less than 1/2.

How can engine braking possibly be more effective than using the rear brake when it's possible to completely lock up the rear wheel with the rear brake?

It seems to me that engine braking would be more effective than simply not using the rear brake, but the rear brake should absolutely be more effective than engine braking.

Surely this is the reason MSF teaches you to yank in the clutch and use both brakes for maximum braking exercises.

jstark47 · #10 Unread post by **jstark47** » Thu Apr 26, 2007 2:30 am

jonnythan wrote:How can engine braking possibly be more effective than using the rear brake when it's possible to completely lock up the rear wheel with the rear brake?

This probably varies a lot by bike. On my Bonneville, it's completely impossible to lock the rear wheel - I think the rear brake is there for decoration! Engine braking is key to getting that bike slowed in a hurry, and there's lots of engine braking available. On my V-strom, the rear brake has about 5 times as much power. On my wife's Trophy, we don't even use the rear brake - the brake pedal is at an uncomfortable angle, and the front brake has huge stopping power and is very easy to modulate. Not much engine braking on the Trophy, maybe 'cause it's an I-4. I don't think it's possible to generalize about all motorcycles when discussing braking.