Engine Ice

[Dichotomous]

am not sure if the coolant still circulates when the thermostat is closed, within the engine at least, and then the thermostate opens up an extra loop that happens to be a radiator and dumps the heat into the air.

Yes, it does circulate, since the waterpump keeps running. Without the radiator, I think it does not do much to cool the system though.

not cool the system, but equalize temperature. this is where a more efficient heat transfer agent may actually benefit you (read: your snake oil might cure the cough) because if the fluid will allow heat to flow into and out of it as fast or faster than the metals around it then it will all but eliminate hot spots, which would allow for a better burn. now, DOUBTLESS the designers took this into account and likely have more cooling in areas that get hotter, but still, SOME uneven heating is likely to occur here and there within individual combustion events and such, and if everything were kept more even, then that window of temperature where the engine SHOULD be operating would be easier to keep narrow.

[jonnythan]

Was the bike engineered to run below 180 normally? No, it was designed to run where most coolants are genearlly maintained.

I don't understand this. The coolant doesn't give one whit what the ambient temperature is. Standard coolant mixtures are happy anywhere from about -36 to 256 degrees and anywhere in between. Engine Ice (being propylene glycol) actually has a smaller temperature range - it will both boil and freeze before standard coolant.

Cars (I'm talking about cars here because I know much more about those than bikes) use thermostats with opening ranges anywhere from, I'm partly guessing here, 155 to 200 degrees. These values are chosen for the engine itself.

You seem to have a couple of misconceptions:

1) Cooler is better. This isn't the case. The ideal operating temperature of the engine was decided by the manufacturer and designed into the cooling system. Efficiency, emissions, and ignition are all optimized by having the engine temperature be within the temperature range the manufacturer designed it for.

2) It's costly to design the bike to run cooler. It's not, really. It costs nothing. Small alterations of the design, such as changing the thermostat and fan programming, can easily alter the operating temperature of the engine at no cost whatsoever to the manufacturer. The thermostat itself is explicitly designed not to let the engine temperature get below a certain value!


Here's a question: why have a thermostat at all? Why not design the system without a thermostat?

The effect of this would be to keep the engine from reaching operating temperature. It would keep the engine cool as long as possible.

The function of the thermostat is to prevent coolant from circulating until the engine has reached its operating temperature.

Think about why an engine manufacturer would do that.

[scan]

Alright, you got me on that one. There is an effective temp that you want an engine to run at to run well. It needs to reach an operating temp, and the thermostat allows the heat to build up so it can reach that temp, and opens once it reaches operating temp, so that would mean if you never allow the thermostat to open, you never let the engine reach what is ideal temp. I don't think I'm going to encounter that problem with this coolant. I think this coolant may better disipate the heat, but it may work just like others too. That will be the test.

So you are right that he cooling system is to operate at a certain range, that I will admit was not really a correct idea I was expressing. But if it trasnfers heat away better, that is better. But I will admit a flaw in my coolness factor.

Anyway, I'll keep replying to this thread as long as anyone likes, and I'll print more data as I have it on my situation.

Thanks for the stimulating conversation.

[jonnythan]

Not to belabor the point, but here are a couple of quotes.

Howstuffworks:
"The engine in your car runs best at a fairly high temperature. When the engine is cold, components wear out faster, and the engine is less efficient and emits more pollution. So another important job of the cooling system is to allow the engine to heat up as quickly as possible, and then to keep the engine at a constant temperature."

Wikipedia:
"The operating temperature is fixed, but is determined by the specific composition of the wax, so thermostats of this type are available to maintain different temperatures, typically in the range of 70 to 90 °C (160 to 200 °F)."

All that said, think of it like this: worst-case scenario, Engine Ice is precisely the same as any other coolant. At least you finally got it replaced - you can think of the extra price you paid for Engine Ice as punishment for waiting so long to replace it

[FZR_Fanatic]

Sorry to dredge up an old thread, but I had to share something I noticed...

I was reading the label on some Engine Ice the other day, and noticed the following statement, which is confirmed on their website:

Engine Ice Hi-Performance Coolant is biodegradable, phosphate free & non-toxic; while reducing operating race temperatures by as much as 50°F and effectively keeping boil over temperatures to 256 °F or less and freeze-up protection to -27° F.

http://www.engineice.cc/products.html

The fact that they specifically mention "race" temperatures is what caught my eye. To me, this implies that the engine is already above normal operating temperature, and is likely creating more heat than it can efficiently shed via the radiator.

This also seems to imply that Engine Ice would only be helpful in situations where the thermostat is already at full open position, by somehow allowing the heat to be more efficiently transferred through the radiator.

As many previous posters have already pointed out, this would have no effect on the cold running temperatures of the bike, as that is determined by the temperature setting of the thermostat. Once the temperature drops below this set point, the thermostat will close again, in order to maintain a constant temperature.

So, in summary, my theory is that Engine Ice only helps in temperatures well above normal, and will not cause your bike to run any colder during standard operating conditions.

One thing I am curious about, though, is whether you will notice a difference in operating temperature at highway speeds, where you have lots of air flow to help cool the radiator...

Scan, do you have any more observations after your coolant flush? I'm definitely interested in your real world experience, as I'm getting ready to do a coolant flush myself...

[scan]

I have been out on a few shorty rides since the change, and have noticed nothing remarkable. It is running fine, and the coolant level in the tank goes up to the hot mark when hot and down the cool mark when cool. The fan came on when I was sitting in traffic not moving, so everything seems normal so far. I'm guessing at this point I put in over-priced coolant/anti-freeze. I'll keep you all posted through the passage of time.

[blair]

Man. I can't believe everyone is going to such length to prove I'm a fool, and it is my dime.

Alright then, three cheers for you guys, I'm foolish.

I dunno. It might not make your engine run cooler than normal, but it could do a better job of keeping it from overheating even when the fan is on.