Gorram Women...

[beardking]

Forget about comparing something like breast feeding to public defacation. That comparison is equally rediculous as the military one.

I'm sorry, but I stand by the comparison. The folks that are pro-public breast feeding argue that it's a perfectly natural, healthy thing to do and the only reason that it's "taboo" is because people are close minded and have obvious sexual hangups related to the human female breast. I say that public defecation is a perfectly natural, healthy thing to do and the only reason that it's "taboo" is because people are close minded and have obvious sexual hangups related to the human anus and groin regions (including public urination in the equation here).

I just don't see the disconnect between the two examples here. They are both natural, they are both healthy, why can't I whip it out in the middle of the mall and drain the main vein into my own personal urine resevoir for later disposal? Seems to be pretty much the same thing as pumping breast milk into a bottle and saving it for later "disposal."

[Shorts]

i know no one called me wrong. If they would have i'd of understood why they did. I wasnt offended in the least.

I'm just trying to say people should be a little more open to other people's thoughts and idea's and maybe a hint more respectful of how they came to their own conclusions.

i think this whole debate is just another one of those gray area's, much like religion, that has to be based on your own experiences, so no one can really be wrong as long as their actions dont hurt others. thats where the bold comment came from i think. Although that was late last night, so who knows

This debate is all kinds of screwed up and everyone will never agree - agree??

[roscowgo]

whether you're taking the opportunity to enjoy looking at boobies or not, Buzz, what you're proposing is creepy.

What you perceive as creepy, I perceive as poking the anthill with a stick.

But think of it.... counter-rotating boobies whirling around.... now clamp a kid on to each one..... now that's entertainment!

And it's very true about people in N.A. being extremely hung-up on nudity and body issues in general. Canadians are just as bad as Mericans about this.

Canadian culture is 99.9% made up of trying desperately to prove we are not Merican..... and in so doing, becoming even more Mericanized with each effort.

At this point the only tangible difference is poutine. <----as proved by my American spell checker not recognizing this word.

Ohhhh rotary baby feeder. is it radial too?

[flw]

"When in Rome, do as the Romans"

In my experience, this is true whether visiting my boss's house or at work or at home or traveling in different area's of the U.S. or Western Europe. Different cultures exist everywhere from small towns to countrys. Not even when in the same small country is the culture the same, everywhere.

I think of todays Gemany with just the divide between the capitolist and socialists that still exists today. As millions still would prefer the days of old, some welcome the change and others that don't like having to pay for subsidizing "East Germany" so they could get to the same economic standards as West Germany.

When in Germany you need to be aware of such issues before you say something at work or at a bar before you get a fist in your face. What does the culture of where your at accept or reject from opinons, actions or lack of action (example, holding a door open for a lady)?

You may or may not do it for one of many reasons, or you may do it without knowing why, just because you were raised that way. The key is being aware that there are many culturally based social rules and what is accepted and what is not. Just goes back to "When in Rome, do as the Romans".

[sv-wolf]

I think that we are still going through a period of social change, where all the old cultural values have started to be questioned but where new ones haven't been established yet. So, many people can still be embarrassed by things like public breastfeeding, though only a small minority of them (in Europe at any rate) would be willing to come out and condemn such practices. So it's now a question of arguing over where precisely we want to draw the boundaries.

I was born just after the the end of the Second World War, so grew up with many of the sexual inhibitions that were around at the time. When I first saw a woman breastfeeding in public I was very embarassed, despite the fact that I was all for taking a much more open and honest attitude to our bodies and our sexuality. It was just a conditioned reflex. That early training is hard to overcome.

When I see a woman breastfeeding in public nowadays, I hardly pay it any attention. I can't say that I ignore it completely, because I often experience a sexual response - usually not a big one, but one big enough to make me sometimes do a double take. Is that because my generation over-sexualised everything to do with breasts by hiding them and putting a taboo on them? Or is it just a normal heterosexual male reaction? I've no idea.

During the Second World War, most British men were off fighting abroad so women took over their jobs and started to find a new purpose for themselves and a new freedom of expression. Come the 1950s and well into the 1960s - my childhood years - there was a huge backlash and an attempt by the establishment to squeeze women out of the workplace and back into their good little housewifely roles. The idea of women as property reasserted itself. It was the age of the 'Stepford Wives' and 'Home and Garden' magazines. It didn't work, but there was a stong attitude of sexual repression that went with it. I remember that vividly.

In my case, going to an all-male school just screwed down the inhibitions tighter so sexual feelings had to squeeze out from under the lid in guarded or over-assertive ways. I think that's one way that male sexuality gets tied up strongly with power issues.

I'm glad we have moved on from Victorian Values. I think that's very healthy, but I suspect there is a limit to how far we can go. In a world which turns everything into commodities, including the human body, I doubt if there is any possibility of completely liberating ourselves physically and sexually. Women in particular will always be under threat from that.

I'm not sure about the 'When in Rome' idea though. I think you have to fight for your values and beliefs (or at least be true to them) and oppose those you think are damaging to human life and happiness. I can't go along with this 'respecting other people's culture' argument. We live in a globalised culture and we need to have a global discussion about values and beliefs. The recent PC theory about 'Respecting Diversity' is often just another way of demanding we tolerate oppression and exploitation.

[Kal]

heh-heh breasts heh-heh...

[roscowgo]

I think it's all about where you're from.

Every chunk of land has different hangups.


/shrug.

Oh and on the pump thing, I've moved on to one incorporated into an accordian of all things. I blame the who.

[Marilee]

heh-heh breasts heh-heh...

[Meanie]

As for the "close-minded" and "ignorant" arguments, those are old, get some filler with substance. Make it an intelligent argument without name calling and put downs. Keep in mind, in the real world, you have rights as well as I.

Reminds me of smokers vs non smokers in public and outdoor places. Seems everyone is right.

Close minded and ignorant are name calling? That's funny, since the definition of ignorant is: lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact; uninformed, unaware, etc. Close minded is just a person who chooses not to see beyond their own perception. I don't see name calling here.

As for the "old" comment, I've been viewing intelligent arguments. What else are you seeking? A scientific formula to why breastfeeding in public is necessary? You want proof that it helps the environment? Where's the intelligent argument of why it shouldn't other than "it's creepy and uncomfortable"? I believe the natural process of supplying a child with the best nutrient possible is the best argument around. You want to escape the issue with calling it old, that's your choice, but it's still the best argument.

As for your smoking analysis, wrong comparison. Breastfeeding WILL NOT harm me if I see it in public. Smoking will. BIG difference. BTW, MOST smokers are intelligent enough to realize this and are also respectful to the non smokers. THEY do know it's WRONG for others as well as themselves but their own addiction drives them to continue.

[Shorts]

Meanie, you're out in left field. I was talking to Holiday. Which as I understand, we have already completed our exchange.