rear brake?

[SEAHORSE]

Can some one explain the brake setup on the Honda vtx1800?
It has a brake line from the foot brake master cyl to the rear caliper and a line to the front brake calipers and a separate brake line from the front brake lever for the front caliper only.

[Fast Eddy B]

Can some one explain the brake setup on the Honda vtx1800?
It has a brake line from the foot brake master cyl to the rear caliper and a line to the front brake calipers and a separate brake line from the front brake lever for the front caliper only.

Honda's brakes tend to be linked systems (not on race-reps), so that using the front brake causes a reduced rear-brake assist, and rear brake causes a reduced front-brake assist.

Apparently its similar to the link system used on the Goldwing, slightly different than on the Super Blackbird and VFR800.

It's a start, hope this helps.

Ed

[OreoGaborio]

If you would have taken the MSF course you would know to use the rear and front brake whenever you use the brakes however to use more front brake than rear brake. You can, if you dont know what your doing that is, grab too much front and find yourself feeling the road real quick.

You can grab just about any front brake lever (with few exceptions) as hard as you can possible grab it and if you do so smoothly on clean pavment the only thing you'll do is lift the rear wheel off the ground.

On the track, my foot never touches the rear brake lever unless my front brakes fail or I'm racing in the rain.

On the street I use them very rarely... Mostly just to keep the bike from rolling forwards or backwards when i'm at a stop & want to take my hands off the bars.

There are a few other rare examples, but for the most part I do 100% of my braking with the front only, even in emergency situations and I suggest all new riders (on standard or sport bikes, where the weight bias is near the middle) to do the same.

[Kal]

I'm going to disagree with you Pete as all it takes is for road conditions to not be right or for the bike not to be lined upright to put the bike down when only using the front.

You may be comfortable with only using the front and that suits you but using both increases the safety margin.

Riding is risk management and I like to make my risks as small as possible while still enjoying myself.

[OreoGaborio]

It's a misconception that you can't use the front brakes when leaned over. Make smooth inputs and you'd be surprised how much front brake you can use while leaned over. I can drag the front brakes w/ my knee on the ground and do so often at the track.

Also, the reason why I suggest most new riders to lay off the rear brake at first, especially in emergency situations is because when you're braking hard the weight bias moves towards the front... and it becomes easier and easier to lock up the rear. I've done it myself many times and I've learned that there's alot of things going on in an emergency situation (or racing scenario) and your brain can only concentrate on so much. Sometimes adding rear brake to the mix overloads the brain and the result is a LONGER stopping distance than you would have achieved w/ front brake only.

So I agree with you, there are examples where rear brake is both beneficial and necessary, but for most conditions I recommend only smooth application of the front brake.

But never-the-less, do what works best for you. If you have the ability to use both simultaniously and do so proficiently, by all means use both. There's nothing wrong w/ doing it correctly. The trick is doing so correctly and effectively and most riders don't have that ability. Thus the reason I suggest front only for most circumstances.

[Kal]

This could be because of the Euro (UK)/US training differences

Over here front brake in the corner is an advanced riding technique because of the potential for it go horribly wrong, same as engine braking which I use a lot.

I have used the front to scrub speed in a corner but it always makes me very uncomfortable.

From day one we are trained for the "Controlled Stop" (we aren't allowed to call it the emergency stop anymore) as

Throttle off - Front brake
Rear brake
Breathe
Clutch

Unless you do it this way you won't be allowed out on a 125 with learner plates, let alone pass the test to be fully licensed.

I can testify that when you need it, it happens without conscious thought required,the body does what it is trained to. Trust me it takes no more time or effort than using the front brake only.

Nothing on a bike is really instinctive straight out of the gate. It's all down to the training and then practice, practice, practice - wherever you are and whatever you are riding.


Above, by out of line, I mean the front wheel not being in line with the rear. Braking with the front only is going to mean that the back is traveling faster than the front, forcing the rear to the outside. Braking with the rear only, even if you lock it up is going to force the rear more into line with the front as the front will be effectively dragging it.

Locking up the back, if you train for it, is no big deal as you just take your foot off and then reapply. Meanwhile the front remains applied.

I certainly agree that the key in most situations is smooth and progressive use of the controls.

[slimcolo]

Kal

Engine braking,when I was first learning I was taught this for both bikes and cars, and I still use it.

Old Ducatti manual (around 64) said to use brakes for stopping only in emergencies.

Think that's hard try the side hack way of cornering. Feather front brake while applying throttle on a left corner. (easier said than done)

[shane-o]

How you often use rear brake and in whom situations mostly?

dont use rear brake, and never will. I do about 20,000 kms a year, mainly inner city riding with regular long hauls on the weekends, and cant see I have ever needed to use the rear brake.

Only time I would imagine that it could be remotely usefull, is, if ya were out ringing the ti.ts off ya bike in the wet, or maybe while taking off after being stopped on the side of a pretty nasty hill, but even here i would just sit still holding the bike with the clutch.

I never have changed a rear brake pad on any of my bikes over the years, BUT, I have done a couple of clutches and go through a stack of front pads

For those who, wanna go the no rear brake path, be warned, one must get a feel for the front as grabing lots of front for the not so experianced rider, could see you and ya machine sliding effortlessly on ya side down the road, or even worse, stand ya bike bolt upright through the turn ya just came to hot into, thus catapulting you straight through the turn into what ever is waiting for you on the other side at great speed.\

Practice
practice
practice

[OreoGaborio]

the quickest & easiest way to get the front out of line w/ the rear is to lock up the rear. And I'd much rather lock up and tuck the front in a corner than lock up the rear in the corner and have it catch & throw me up & over.

Most riders would be very surprised by how much braking you can do w/ just the front tire while leaned over. IMO using the front brake while leaned over (trail braking) and "filling in the top half of the traction circle" is a much more usefull skill than effectively using the rear.

Here's a shameless plug A friend of mine just posted a pic of me from my race on Sunday. You can clearly see my fingers still pulling in the brakes w/ my knee nearly on the ground and my forks are very compressed, mostly from the braking force.

I'm about 1/2 way through my turn-in when I cross that pavment transition and my brake release marker is well past that point.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c364/ ... G_7248.jpg

Don't mind the bike nudity... the bodywork is in for repairs

[Nibblet99]

dont use rear brake, and never will. I do about 20,000 kms a year, mainly inner city riding with regular long hauls on the weekends, and cant see I have ever needed to use the rear brake.

I'm guessing the ground doesn't freeze up where you are

When its slippy as hell out there, you have to use both brakes if you want to stop in any kind of reasonable distance