conflicting advice

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speelyei · #1 Unread post by **speelyei** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 8:54 am

mods: could somebody please move this to the new riders forum? sorry

looking at buying my first bike. I rode a trail 50 a couple times, rode around on a cb125 in high school a handful of times...
Ive got some pretty good friends who are long time motorcycle riders, and there is a big difference in the advice I see on this site and what they tell me.
I am 6'1", 200 lbs, and a blue-collar, manual labor guy. After reading this site, and others, I felt that the bike I should be looking for (after taking the basic rider course) would be something like a Rebel, Virago, etc. Something in the 250cc range. Everybody who I have asked advice from has paused, looked at me, and said "where on earth did you get that idea?" "That is way too small of a bike for you."
So I parrot back all the stuff I have read on here, and other sites...
Uniformly, I get advised to look at either a 250cc bike (website advice), or to get at least a 650.

So I guess the point of this post is to vent about the disparity between well-meant internet advice and well meant first-hand advice.
I know the advice I would give an anonymous poster with no surfing experience would be a lot different than what i might tell somebody I knew better.

As a side note, I have no interest, and I mean no interest at all, in riding on the freeway. I live on a rural section of the Oregon coast, and my daily commute is only 5 miles. I have ridden my mountain bike dozens of times on the same path I would ride my motorcycle. 3 miles of two lane country road, dips and hills, and then two miles of arrow-straight highway 101. Anywhere else I drive, I will either have kids or a surfboard or both, so the motorcycle is out of the question. So it seems to me I dont need/want anything too high performance, but I dont want to hold up traffic trying to pull a hill, either.

i know nobodys curious, but i am all stoked, the bikes I am looking at are:
89 suzuki gs 500e $900
83 Honda Nighthawk 650 $1250
82 Yamaha Maxim 750 $1000

jonnythan · #2 Unread post by **jonnythan** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:11 am

You didn't read this site very well, I don't think.

250cc is an OK bike, but by no means the biggest you should start with.

A 250cc cruiser, IMO, is just too small and underpowered for most people. I'd never recommend it as a first bike unless it was (no offense ladies) to a smaller, younger male or a somewhat timid female. A 650-750cc cruiser is a nice starting point.

A Ninja 250, which is a 250cc sportbike, is a good starting point if you're into sportbikes. There are other bikes, like the Ninja 500 and Suzuki GS550 that are also good beginner bikes.

The Maxim and Nighthawk each have quite a bit of muscle (70 HP). I'll let others comment on them though since I've never ridden either.

#3 Unread post by **NWTrtle** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:14 am

I have seen both the 250cc bike advice and the under 50hp advice. As always, it is a personal choice. I chose the 250cc route and my bike is around 24hp and has no problems moving my 6' and 210lbs up hills or anywhere. The bikes you have listed would probably all be fine choices.

As a related side note, my MSF instructor, who has been teaching for years and riding even longer, thought the the Yamaha VStar 650 would be a perfect starter bike for someone my size. Although it is bigger than a 250cc, it is under 50hp. I know that a lot of the time, the 250cc suggestion is aimed more at those looking at a sport bike. Cruisers produce their power differently, so going bigger is easier for a new rider than it is on a sport bike.

Not sure if my response makes any sense, or if it is even helpful.

mydlyfkryzis · Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:47 am

The advice hinges on the fact that a mildly tuned motorcycle will offer fewer surprises to a new rider.

While some may start on a Hayabusa, the odds of them surviving unscathed are pretty low. For every "I started on a sportbike and didn't kill myself" there are probably 10 riders who hurt themselves needlessly starting with a bike that had a far greater capacity than their skills could handle.

You can still hurt yourself on a 250, but not at 150 mph.

The smaller bikes, used, keep their value. and a cheaper used bike doesn't make you cry as much when you drop it. Very often, you can start ona used, smaller bike, and sell it for near what you paid for it when it comes time to move up a little.

Finally, if you are like me, you can find satisfaction in a nice motorcycle without having the highest HP or top speed model out there.

Personally, speeds over 100 scare me, as I can imagine sliding along the pavement at that speed and the picture isn't pretty. You may find a nice 650/750 low performance motorcycle a real nice fit.

Many new riders (especially younger ones) get caught up in the machismo of having a powerful motorcycle with good "specs". They often end up scarred somewhere, if not killed. Having a 200 HP motorcycle does not prove you are a man.

Veda · #5 Unread post by **Veda** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 9:58 am

I have to agree with jonnythan that you haven't fully read the advise here and on other sites. I'm going to guess your buddies are cruiser riders, yes? Of course they laughed if you talked about getting a Rebel 250. That is a very small bike, with a noticeable speed cap. It is not the same as a sportier 250 like the Ninja or Hyosung 250r, who have tops speeds of about 110 mph. Usually, when you see people here recommending 250s they are talking about the Ninja. I don't think I've ever seen someone here recommending a rebel 250.

speelyei · #6 Unread post by **speelyei** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 10:05 am

You didn't read this site very well, I don't think.

I am starting to pick up on that. Glad I posted this.

I guess I got that impression (250cc bikes being the suggested learner bike) from a combination of bulletin board advice, manufacturer marketing, and ... hmm, I dont know. But I had that impression.

Shorts · #7 Unread post by **Shorts** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 11:46 am

speelyei wrote:
You didn't read this site very well, I don't think.

I am starting to pick up on that. Glad I posted this.

I guess I got that impression (250cc bikes being the suggested learner bike) from a combination of bulletin board advice, manufacturer marketing, and ... hmm, I dont know. But I had that impression.

It's not a bad impression to have and don't feel bad for having it. Afterall, that mantra is definitely pushed as the safest, smartest start. You're smart to throw caution to the wind and find out why (about 250s) and follow up with further research for the discrepancies of advice you've heard.

I think mydlyfkryzis summed it up pretty well. And what NWTurtle said about the power delivery between cruisers and sportbikes is the reason for the difference in starting on a 250 or a 650.

roscowgo · #8 Unread post by **roscowgo** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 12:05 pm

There is absolutely nothing wrong with a 250cc bike. Especially for a beginner.

Generally i tend to agree with johnny, not for the same reasons mind you, but generally a small displacement bike is going to have a small frame. There are exceptions to that, just like there are exceptions to everything. Go actually plant your butt on a huge huge huge lot of all kinds of bikes. Then be honest with yourself about what you liked.

Having said that, theres nothing wrong with a little bigger bike for a beginner either. I wouldn't jump on a high performance sport bike, neither would i leap on top of some 2 liter monster cruiser. Find people that own each seperate bike. ask their opinions. Then find out what their background in riding is.

For god's sake, don't listen to the testosterone. Decide what you want and go with it. You know if you ask some random guy he's gonna tell you to get a boss hoss.

ceemes · #9 Unread post by **ceemes** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:03 pm

I owned the CB 650 Custom, the sable mate of the Night Hawk, and found it to be a fairly docile bike but with enough HP to deal with the Highway. It was fairly light weight, easy to handle and very forgiving. I'd say it would be a good starter bike. Plus if I recall correctly, its has a shaft final drive, like my current Sabre and therefore is relatively maintenance free....i.e., no chain to degrease, re-lube and tighten every few hundred miles or so.

rocky99 · #10 Unread post by **rocky99** » Mon Sep 17, 2007 1:36 pm

I has a honda cb160 in high school, many, many years ago(1969), and haven't ridden since. This summer i got back into it, bought a v-star 650, read two books on riding safely, studied the internet, took the MSF course and started to ride again. I'm 175lb and the 650 is NOT too large a bike, is comfortable and a pleasure to ride, and one pretty bike to look at. I don't know what your budget is but the v-star is a bike you should consider looking into. It would have more than enough power for what you're using it for and would provide an excellent stepping stone if you ever did decide to graduate to a larger bike, as this is full size in length.

Good luck.

Rocky