YZF 600 as a starter?

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#91 Unread post by **Sev** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 12:56 pm

How do you judge a persons skills over the internet?

That being said, I think it's better to err on the side of cuation and suggest something smaller for the first 5-6 months. To me it's a question of personaly responsibility. I wouldn't want to be the guy who said, "yeah you can handle a 600 supersport to start." After hearing about how confident he was in his skills. Then find out a week later he hit a curb doing 70 and died.

#92 Unread post by **ZooTech** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:15 pm

Therein lies your problem...a complete lack of ability to apply blame where blame is due. People are accountable for their own actions. If he professed his ability to handle a 600, and you recommended a good one to buy, and he killed himself then keep in mind HE killed himself, not you. It still boils down to respect for the bike. If a newbie has no respect for a Rebel 250, that Rebel 250 can and will be his/her demise. Personally I don't like recommending bikes that are too light because they are easily blown around. My mom was involved in one accident during her riding career and it was due to literally being blown down by a semi while doing 70mph on the interstate. A heavier bike would have saved her a lot of pain and countless scars.

The bike??? It was a Honda 350.

#93 Unread post by **Sev** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 1:27 pm

Actually that sounds like a lack of situational awareness and skill. Not an expression of how much the bike weighs.

And yes, you are responsible for your recomendations. He came looking for advice for a starter bike, without giving any indication of his skills. I could have said a mille, and if he had killed himself on it. Well then you cannot tell me that some part of that is my fault. I'm the one who said he could handle it, if someone is stupid enough to listen to me when I say something like that it is their fault to. But if I were to say, "you won't die when you shoot yourself in head." And someone were to try it and die, is it not my fault? It was an opinion that I expressed and someone acted on. I'm responsible for what I put out there.

#94 Unread post by **ZooTech** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:04 pm

Sevulturus wrote:I'm responsible for what I put out there.

And people who listen to you are responsible for getting a second opinion, which he did.

Personal accountability....get some! And while you're at it, expect others to have some, too. It is people like you that continue making concessions for those in this world who are too ignorant and lazy to do for themselves.

Toyuzu · #95 Unread post by **Toyuzu** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:07 pm

Zootech, that was out of line. What Jeff said was exactly the opposite. He is taking responsibility for his own actions, and by doing so being an example of the same for those who refuse to do so. Let's refrain from personal attacks here, please.

NuRida · #96 Unread post by **NuRida** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 2:32 pm

can everyone please stop talking about dieing and killing yourselves on bikes please? its making me depressed, and killing my excitment for motorcycles....i understand the risks involved, but can you please tell me other information...and not just the you will die scenario...thanks

#97 Unread post by **ZooTech** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 4:16 pm

Toyuzu wrote:Zootech, that was out of line. What Jeff said was exactly the opposite. He is taking responsibility for his own actions, and by doing so being an example of the same for those who refuse to do so. Let's refrain from personal attacks here, please.

You tell someone to jump off a bridge...and they do it...who's more at fault for the subsequent death? "Jeff" is trying to justify his recommendations based on potential backlash, choosing to err to the side of over-cautiousness due to concern over potential guilt or possibly even legal repercussions. Thing is, NuRida is ultimately responsible for assembling all the data and recommendations and making his final purchase decision. In the end, if he crashes, that's on him.

If you got anything else out of my comment I don't know what to tell ya.

Toyuzu · #98 Unread post by **Toyuzu** » Tue Jun 21, 2005 6:01 pm

zootech wrote:You tell someone to jump off a bridge...and they do it...who's more at fault for the subsequent death?

Who's more at fault? I don't think that's the point here. In fact, at that point fault wouldn't matter. The point is that potential riders come here asking for advice from experienced, knowledgeable riders. We who dispense that advice have a certain ethical responsibility to give every new rider the best possible chance to begin their learning experience safely. (We were talking about motorcycles, weren't we?) That means recommending bikes which are light and easy to handle. Bikes that a newb with an in-experienced throttle hand can ride with confidence while building their skills. Noone here has the capability to determine whether NuRida, or any other member is able to safely start out on a 600 CC sportbike. Therefore, we recommend bikes that we KNOW are easy to learn on. Chances are, He'd be just as happy on a 250 Ninja, or a GS 500 as he would the YZF 600R. Even the diminutive 250 Ninja will out-accelerate the majority of cages on the road, after all.

zootech wrote:"Jeff" is trying to justify his recommendations based on potential backlash, choosing to err to the side of over-cautiousness due to concern over potential guilt or possibly even legal repercussions. Thing is, NuRida is ultimately responsible for assembling all the data and recommendations and making his final purchase decision. In the end, if he crashes, that's on him.

If you got anything else out of my comment I don't know what to tell ya.

Do you know Jeff? I didn't think so. Then why do you presume to know his motivations for his recommendations? I do know him, and I guarantee he has no fear of legal repercussions. He's smart enough to know that is impossible.

Potential guilt? That's possible. If you gave what turned out to be bad advice, and someone got hurt because of it, wouldn't you feel at least a little remorseful?

And who are you to choose what is and is not "over-cautious"? If your name is David Hough, then by all means - define the term. By the way, I agree - NuRida is responsible for his decision. But to disregard sage advice is folly. I guess my point is, there is collectively an opinion held by an overwhelming majority of the motorcycling community, and we here at TMW agree - DON'T ride your first mile on a 600 CC sportbike. You're welcome to a differing opinion, of course, but state it and leave it at that.

JCS · #99 Unread post by **JCS** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:27 am

I'm gonna get some popcorn and a sandwich.

#100 Unread post by **Sev** » Wed Jun 22, 2005 2:28 am

zootech wrote:
Sevulturus wrote:I'm responsible for what I put out there.
Personal accountability....get some!

So wait... me suggesting that I hold myself responsible for what I say and do is not personal accountability? I'm glad you pointed that out. Now, if you would be so kind as to explain exactly what personal accountability is... I will be glad to improve myself by attempting to develop it.