Mercenary dealers

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RhadamYgg · Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:59 pm

flynrider wrote:
RhadamYgg wrote:I think there are good laws and bad laws, but a good law might be to regulate the sales of motorcycles for some presentation of knowledge to first time owners - about what they should and should not do - from a safety perspective.
Forget trying to regulate a sales pitch. It can't be done. As long as clueless newbs are allowed to buy and ride any bike they want, they will continue to make bad choices. The only thing you can do in this realm is to legislate what type of bike a new owner can ride. To be fair, that should also include legislation to prevent newb drivers from driving 500 hp sports cars.
http://www.ocala.com/article/20080204/B ... /261837791

BTW, I'm not in favor of trying to legislate common sense. It never really works well. The best place for education of the newb biker is during rider training. Maybe that should be mandatory.

Man, that article is really sad. I did lots of stupid things when I first got my car license. I couldn't imagine having a high-powered car like that - I'd probably be dead too.

RhadamYgg

oxbow1 · #12 Unread post by **oxbow1** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:01 pm

It's called thinning the heard

oxbow1 · #13 Unread post by **oxbow1** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 2:02 pm

If we pass laws to keep idiots from killing themselves, then we have alot of laws and alot of idiots

RhadamYgg · Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:31 pm

Well, the best I can come up with - would be a requirement that all riders take the MSF course in order to get their license.

I like the graduated engine size route as well.

More than that though, would be a continuous training and re-training of car drivers - that regardless of age they would have to continue to qualify for their license. And I don't just mean old people.

Hopefully, I'll be able to get a camera set-up and capture some of the horribly stupid things drivers do here in NJ - with no respect to the law these people who on average 'think' they drive better than average - routinely break even the simplest motor vehicle laws.

RhadamYgg

ofblong · #15 Unread post by **ofblong** » Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:50 pm

RhadamYgg wrote:Well, the best I can come up with - would be a requirement that all riders take the MSF course in order to get their license.

I like the graduated engine size route as well.

More than that though, would be a continuous training and re-training of car drivers - that regardless of age they would have to continue to qualify for their license. And I don't just mean old people.

Hopefully, I'll be able to get a camera set-up and capture some of the horribly stupid things drivers do here in NJ - with no respect to the law these people who on average 'think' they drive better than average - routinely break even the simplest motor vehicle laws.

RhadamYgg

lol alot of people KNOW they are doing it. Hell I do 10mph over the speed limit. I know its illegal but I still do it. but thats me

. As for putting age limits I am assuming they would only do so for road driving not for things like dirt bike racing etc etc?

RhadamYgg · Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:05 pm

ofblong wrote:
RhadamYgg wrote:Well, the best I can come up with - would be a requirement that all riders take the MSF course in order to get their license.

I like the graduated engine size route as well.

More than that though, would be a continuous training and re-training of car drivers - that regardless of age they would have to continue to qualify for their license. And I don't just mean old people.

Hopefully, I'll be able to get a camera set-up and capture some of the horribly stupid things drivers do here in NJ - with no respect to the law these people who on average 'think' they drive better than average - routinely break even the simplest motor vehicle laws.

RhadamYgg
lol alot of people KNOW they are doing it. Hell I do 10mph over the speed limit. I know its illegal but I still do it. but thats me . As for putting age limits I am assuming they would only do so for road driving not for things like dirt bike racing etc etc?

Oh, I do 10 over as well, in fact in NJ I'm sure the police expect just about everyone to do 10 over. I know a person who got a ticket for doing 55, because they weren't driving with the flow of traffic and were presenting a danger to everyone else.

On road and off road are two different things. I don't think you even need a license for off road - so it is basically unregulated.

No, I'm talking strictly, that driving and riding can present dangers to others and that people should be trained. Not pass a written test, a vision test and do a few simple movements and off you go.

It would be costly to implement, sure. But the costs of all the accidents we have would also go down - probably a lot more than the costs of appropriate training programs. The problem is that everyone thinks they are great drivers until they T-bone somebody (and I was almost t-boned a few weeks ago - in my car! - damned people go when they clearly cannot see).

Hell, I'd settle for some recognition in the car driver manual that motorcycles exist and the typical car-caused motorcycle accidents that can be avoided.

RhadamYgg

Gunslinger · Mon Apr 07, 2008 6:18 pm

I agree that the MSF should be mandatory but they need to work on reducing the cost of the class so the majority of people can afford it.
But I strongly disagree that bikes should be regulated. I would bet the bike manufacturers aren't going to like that either. So are we now going to have cops pulling over every rider to see if his endorsment matches the type of bike he is riding? They have enough to worry about. We need more educated riders, not more regulation. Just my .02.

ofblong · #18 Unread post by **ofblong** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 12:16 am

RhadamYgg wrote:
ofblong wrote:
RhadamYgg wrote:Well, the best I can come up with - would be a requirement that all riders take the MSF course in order to get their license.

I like the graduated engine size route as well.

More than that though, would be a continuous training and re-training of car drivers - that regardless of age they would have to continue to qualify for their license. And I don't just mean old people.

Hopefully, I'll be able to get a camera set-up and capture some of the horribly stupid things drivers do here in NJ - with no respect to the law these people who on average 'think' they drive better than average - routinely break even the simplest motor vehicle laws.

RhadamYgg
lol alot of people KNOW they are doing it. Hell I do 10mph over the speed limit. I know its illegal but I still do it. but thats me . As for putting age limits I am assuming they would only do so for road driving not for things like dirt bike racing etc etc?
Oh, I do 10 over as well, in fact in NJ I'm sure the police expect just about everyone to do 10 over. I know a person who got a ticket for doing 55, because they weren't driving with the flow of traffic and were presenting a danger to everyone else.

On road and off road are two different things. I don't think you even need a license for off road - so it is basically unregulated.

No, I'm talking strictly, that driving and riding can present dangers to others and that people should be trained. Not pass a written test, a vision test and do a few simple movements and off you go.

It would be costly to implement, sure. But the costs of all the accidents we have would also go down - probably a lot more than the costs of appropriate training programs. The problem is that everyone thinks they are great drivers until they T-bone somebody (and I was almost t-boned a few weeks ago - in my car! - damned people go when they clearly cannot see).

Hell, I'd settle for some recognition in the car driver manual that motorcycles exist and the typical car-caused motorcycle accidents that can be avoided.

RhadamYgg

true. However here in michigan the ONLY drivers that need to take that written test are first time liscencers. Like when I first got my motorcycle endorsement I had to take a test. I just renewed my liscence and all they did was make sure I could see my letters (which the way those damn things are setup I have a hard time reading with my right eye without moving my eye since I am 15% blind in my right eye and that blind spot happens to be just about exact middle of my eye grr).

#19 Unread post by **MZ33** » Tue Apr 08, 2008 5:04 pm

A little more education for car drivers about the needs and requirements of motorcyclists would help, too. Why we aren't dead center in the lane, for instance. Why we slow slightly at an intersection, then take off like a bat when we think it's safe. Why some bikers like loud pipes.

Yeah, Rhadam, I can relate to your near T-bone. Yesterday I was nearly taken out in a crosswalk by a sweet young thing zooming out of a parking lot. She wasn't even on a cell phone! She was just giggling at her girlfriend, who ,at least, had stopped giggling.

RevBrian · #20 Unread post by **RevBrian** » Wed Apr 09, 2008 2:30 pm

When I went into the dealer, the salesman spent about 20 minutes to a half hour asking me question about me - what I plan to use the bike for, what my expectations are, whether I have my license yet and then recommended that I register for the course before I lay some cash down on a bike. Bottom line, he spent the time to help me find the bike that was right for me not the most expensive biggest baddest bike in the shop. I believe in developing good relationships and I will gladly recommend this salesman to anyone and I will certainly buy my next bike from him - pretty good chance of that given that he's been with the same dealership selling bikes for going on 20 years.