Clutch-Less Shifting, Final Answer??

[storysunfolding]

hyperr- which puts more strain on the transmission?

[MrShake]

It seems to me that you are fishing for someone to tell you its ok. Your not getting that answer, so you keep fishing.

No the opposite. I am "fishing" for someone to tell me why a properly executed clutchless upshift is bad.

This thread seems to be very clear, cut and dry, black and white. And the conclusion is that its not a good idea.

Not true. There are opinions from both sides. I have posted a article from Sports Rider agreeing with me. How is this thread cut and dry? As for your opinion, I don't know you and you don't know me. For all I know, you could be Kevin Cameron or Shoichiro Irimajiri. However until you prove me that you are someone of that caliber, I am more likely to believe Sports Rider over you, nothing personal.

I'm sure some mechanic will happily allow you to pay him/her to fix your tranny if/when it fails.

Thanks but I like to work on my own bike.

Its your money, your bike, your choice. Stop fishing for the answer you want.

Did you even read what I wrote?

I just went back and counted... excluding you.. there are 12 posts saying its bad and 3 that say its ok..... again its clear.

I don't know who Kevin Cameron or Shoichiro Irimajiri are, and I don't care. I don't see why you are even still discussing it. No one is stoping you from doing what you want.

[Wrider]

As an afternote...
I talked to a buddy here at school who raced AMA for a little bit. He's done full tranny teardowns on bikes with and without clutchless shifting. Granted these are done by really good racers that know what the heck they're doing.

He says that the ones done with clutchless actually have less wear usually.
That's because these guys are able to match revs really well usually. He still uses his clutch daily on his CBR600RR that he rides as a daily driver. He says he can't and won't recommend clutchless to everyone, because most people will tear up their trannies long before they get proficient enough to do it properly...
Wrider

[ofblong]

As an afternote...
I talked to a buddy here at school who raced AMA for a little bit. He's done full tranny teardowns on bikes with and without clutchless shifting. Granted these are done by really good racers that know what the heck they're doing.

He says that the ones done with clutchless actually have less wear usually.
That's because these guys are able to match revs really well usually. He still uses his clutch daily on his CBR600RR that he rides as a daily driver. He says he can't and won't recommend clutchless to everyone, because most people will tear up their trannies long before they get proficient enough to do it properly...
Wrider

and thats exactly what we are saying. Unless your an expert or want to spend lots o money fixing then by all means do it.

I was goign to do an analogy (its not the best but it works in this situation).

You have a servo motor (the bike racer) that can handle low to high torque ranges. You can do many things like "clutchless" shifting without wear because it was designed for that.

Then you have a gear motor (your everyday bike) which is designed for low torque. It may not immediatly break when you put high torque to it but after a few times of getting high toque BAM the gears get stripped out and now the gear motor is junk.

I think ill stick to using my clutch always. I know its not the best analogy but its still somewhat works .

[HYPERR]

As an afternote...
I talked to a buddy here at school who raced AMA for a little bit. He's done full tranny teardowns on bikes with and without clutchless shifting. Granted these are done by really good racers that know what the heck they're doing.

He says that the ones done with clutchless actually have less wear usually.
That's because these guys are able to match revs really well usually. He still uses his clutch daily on his CBR600RR that he rides as a daily driver. He says he can't and won't recommend clutchless to everyone, because most people will tear up their trannies long before they get proficient enough to do it properly...
Wrider

Thank you Wrider!!

That pretty much wraps what I was trying to say.

The only bike that I clutchless upshift on a fairly regular basis is the CBR600RR. And when I do it, it is when the situation is ideal and it always results in such a smooth effortless virtually resistant-less upshift that I know it is doing no harm whatsoever. Mechanical feedback and resistance does not lie. If indeed there was something being forced or grinded, I am certain to feel it.

I ride my bikes hard but I maintain them meticulously and would never do anything that would damage my toys in any way.

You are 100% right that clutchless upshift is not for everyone(and not for every bike). It's a learned skill that is not needed for the enjoyment of this wonderful hobby that we all share. However, if mastered(and on the right bike), it is a skill that does(at least for me) enhance the enjoyment and really is no downside.

[Johnj]

So your an expert. Can you hear when your tires have traction?

[Sev]

So your an expert. Can you hear when your tires have traction?

Yup... they have traction till I hear "CRASH!" At which point I realize I've run out, lol.

[HYPERR]

So your an expert. Can you hear when your tires have traction?

Yeah but only after the tires get scrubbed in.

[HYPERR]

So your an expert. Can you hear when your tires have traction?

Yup... they have traction till I hear "CRASH!" At which point I realize I've run out, lol.

Yeah you don't get the advance warning of screeching tires screaming for traction like in cars.

[adrielm]

1 spinning mass with weigh and power, matches 1 spinning mass with weight and resistance. With the clutch, you've got some leeway on matching the two masses. Without the clutch, you're slamming them together, metal on metal. Sometimes they match perfectly, sometimes they differ by a little bit, the odd time they will differ by a lot.

Which one will fatigue/stress fracture metal sooner?