New Rider...purchase question

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Weaselcreature · Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:07 am

Heya folks! While this is my first post, I've been stalking the forums this past week, reading all the hints, tips, and advice. Gas prices are pushing me into getting my 1st bike quicker than I thought I would do it, and after trolling through the forums I'm leaning towards a Rebel.

My question is: when purchasing a car, it's expected that there is haggling involved, and you don't just go with the sticker price; I expect it to be the same with a bike, but is it an equal percentage? (10-15% off sticker is what I hear most people suggest for auto purchases)

Thumper · #2 Unread post by **Thumper** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 6:59 am

With bikes, you negotiate the OTD pice--"Out The Door." When you buy a new bike, you have not only the sticker price, but all these ridiculous fees on top it it. Assembly, freight, TTL, tire fee (in CA at least), usage of the their pen to sign things fee, and fee to sit in their office and breathe.

Find out what others in your relative are paid OTD for their bikes, and use that as a negotiating point. On smaller bikes right now, there's little wiggle room because the demand for them is increasing. For instance, on a $3200 Rebel you could wind up with an OTD price over $4500.

It's definitely not like buying a car. But don't negotiate the sticker price on the bike--it doesn't matter. What matters is what you pay for the whole package; let them manipulate the actual numbers to get the price you want.

jstark47 · #3 Unread post by **jstark47** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 3:19 pm

This is not a good time of year for bargaining bike prices. December is a good time of year, they want to reduce inventory then to make the books look good. Between warm weather and skyrocketing gas prices, bikes are selling well right now - dealerships don't have much incentive to bargain.

NewGuy · #4 Unread post by **NewGuy** » Thu Jun 12, 2008 4:33 pm

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Anyone that pays MSRP on a vehicle, whether it's a motorcycle or a car is throwing away money.

Sales of motorcycles are actually down significantly from the previous year, despite high gas prices. So bargains are out there, even though this time of year is traditionally a bad time to try and get a deal on a bike.

jstark47 · #5 Unread post by **jstark47** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:15 am

NewGuy wrote:Sales of motorcycles are actually down significantly from the previous year, despite high gas prices.

I'd be interested in your source for that, please. And which two years are you comparing? And for what country / market?

NewGuy · #6 Unread post by **NewGuy** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 3:48 am

jstark47 wrote:
NewGuy wrote:Sales of motorcycles are actually down significantly from the previous year, despite high gas prices.
I'd be interested in your source for that, please. And which two years are you comparing? And for what country / market?

I'm talking about recent years in the US market.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid= ... efer=japan
"Honda built about 44,000 VTX and Gold Wing motorcycles in Marysville last year. The plant's output peaked in 1997, with 174,000 motorcycles and all-terrain vehicles. Production of the all-terrain vehicles was later moved to South Carolina."

"Honda's U.S. market share for large street motorcycles fell in 2007 to 14.2 percent from 15.1 percent a year earlier, according to data released last week by rival Harley-Davidson Inc. Honda couldn't confirm the figures."

http://www.motorcyclecruiser.com/featur ... index.html
"In an official release, senior management of the firm's US motorcycle division stated that the production transfer is a "business decision to improve the competitiveness, value and appeal of our products". Some speculate that the growing demand for Honda's cars has shoved aside bike production at the plant. The cars are more profitable and represent a much larger percentage of American Honda's business (while the bike segment has experienced a decline in sales)."

Honda lost market share to rival H-D, but the overall market is shrinking too, and H-D is planning to lay off workers due to shrinking retail sales:
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index. ... _coul.html
"Harley-Davidson plans to reduce its workforce by 730 employees because of "growing weakness in the economy" affecting U.S. retail sales, Ziemer said in a statement released by the company today."

Back in September H-D was forced to shut down production due to lower sales:
http://www.abc27.com/news/stories/0907/456221.html

They didn't let employees work, and therefore didn't have the expense of paying 3000 employees for one week, because they were hurting for money. Then as you can see they ended up having lay off 730 employees a few months later.

Again, anyone who pays MSRP on a vehicle, car or bike, is just throwing money away. That is especially true now in our weakened economy.

Weaselcreature · Fri Jun 13, 2008 5:05 am

Thanks for all the input.

I had a nice chat with a salesman yesterday, and he was the best one I've talked to so far (wasn't trying to push me into a bigger bike right off the bat...he listened to what I was looking for, and we just sat and talked for awhile).

They bike (Rebel) didn't have a sticker on it, so I asked him what the sticker price is. He said that on the Rebels, they don't budge off the MSRP because the profit margin is so low on it, and that is something he brought up earlier, unsolicited, while we were just chatting. He did guestimate an OTD price close to (and lower) than what Thumper mentioned. And all this knowing I wasn't looking to buy right now, but was just doing research and visiting multiple dealers.

So ya...I had a good feeling about him, but I'm still not looking to get screwed.

#8 Unread post by **MZ33** » Fri Jun 13, 2008 1:30 pm

usage of the their pen to sign things fee

You know, I always forget that one, even when buying cages . . .

I would look into used as well, because it's an expensive hobby, and some people are looking to pare down on their stuff. My friend just bought a nice one for $2350 from an older couple who decided instead to get a Goldwing with a trike kit instead.

NewGuy · #9 Unread post by **NewGuy** » Sat Jun 14, 2008 12:15 am

Weaselcreature wrote:They bike (Rebel) didn't have a sticker on it . . .

Ever wonder why the dealer does that despite the fact that MSRP is published on the Honda website?

He said that on the Rebels, they don't budge off the MSRP because the profit margin is so low on it, and that is something he brought up earlier, unsolicited, while we were just chatting.

One of many common things salesmen say in an effort to separate you from the largest chunk of money possible. Also, that unsolicited comment wasn't him being nice/honest that was his attempt to discourage you from trying to negotiate a better price. Also, keep in mind the Honda Rebel sitting new at a dealer has stiff competiton from other new beginner bikes, and a large number of used bikes, including used Rebels.