MSC (or MSF) vs. Rider's Edge

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RaoulDuke · #1 Unread post by **RaoulDuke** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 9:09 am

Hi all:

I'm wondering if anyone has any feedback on the Rider's Edge courses (through H-D) vs. an MSF course offered at, say, a local Community College. The local Rider's Edge course here is $295 and is 4 days, while the class at the local Community College is only $176 and only lasts 3 days.

I guess I'm not necessarily asking for a review of the local Comm. College class (how would you know?), but wondering if there's any added value in the Rider's Edge class beyond extra instruction time.

Thanks!

--Ant.

#2 Unread post by **Skier** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 11:58 am

From what I hear, from second or third hand information, is the Rider's Edge course teaches the same material but indoctrinates new, impressionable riders into the Harley family: taking tours of the dealer, sitting on bikes, looking at the HD-branded riding gear, etc...

For some it's great, for those looking for manufacturer-agnostic training, take the BRC through the community college.

RhadamYgg · Tue Jun 24, 2008 12:43 pm

Skier wrote:From what I hear, from second or third hand information, is the Rider's Edge course teaches the same material but indoctrinates new, impressionable riders into the Harley family: taking tours of the dealer, sitting on bikes, looking at the HD-branded riding gear, etc...

For some it's great, for those looking for manufacturer-agnostic training, take the BRC through the community college.

Yes, I believe this is true, and is fairly well documented in articles that have been in Motorcycle Consumer News Articles.

HD had left the MSF for a number of years, but then wanted to rejoin. As a part of rejoining, they wanted to offer their own BRC course - fully licensed from the MSF.

Problem was, that the smallest HD is an 883 and the smallest BUELL was 500cc.

The MSF modified their requirements so that the 500cc Buells would be legal for the BRC course. HD hopes that people will take the BRC/Rider's Edge at their dealerships that the women will be attracted to the Buells and the Men would buy a beginner bike of a Buell and then graduate to HD. (this was stated in similar terms in another article)

Of course, others have pointed out that this is a little wrong-headed. If you are a sport bike type person (like myself) you'll start with a Buell and graduate to a bigger better Buell. If you are in to HD, you'll probably start with a Sportster.

Articles have pointed out that people often buy a bike from the manufacturer of the bike they used in the BRC, so HD's decision makes sense.

I actually did take the BRC on a Kawasaki Eliminator, and I liked the bike. I'm not sure how much it impacted me in picking a Kawasaki Ninja 250... And honestly, the bikes at the BRC course have typically had the snot kicked out of them.

I did actually debate getting an Eliminator 125 after the course, because I liked the bike. But I needed highway ability so I decided against it.

RhadamYgg

#4 Unread post by **t_bonee** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 1:14 pm

They are one in the same.

RaoulDuke · #5 Unread post by **RaoulDuke** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:17 pm

Thanks for the input. I had a sneaking suspicion that it was somewhat mired in H-D propaganda, but wasn't sure. Thing is, I've already tipped back a cup of the Harley Kool-Aid; I may start on a used Shadow or something to cut my teeth, but I'm most definitely Harley bound. Just something about 'em...

Anyway, is it worth $120 bucks to get a personal tour of the dealership? Probably not. I'm waiting to see what the student:instructor ratio is at the Community College. Rider's Edge is 5.5:1. I'm a big fan of personal attention, and I may need it (Heaven help me), so that may sway me if the College is 10:1 or better.

Glad I posted before I whipped out the credit card...

Thanks again!

--Ant.

dean owens · Tue Jun 24, 2008 3:37 pm

as someone who has taken a riders edge course i can tell you what i know. i only took it because i could get into it quicker. two week wait verses a 3 month wait. it was worth it to me.

the course is on a buell blast. it's a small little bike and fun to learn on. all the videos are done to show guys riding harleys. from everything i've read and heard it is the exact same course. there was a some tour/shopping time. to be honest, it's not that bad. they walked us around the store and actually did a good job educating us on different sorts of gear that's out there. the dealership i went to gave a discount. and a few of the people in there were going to get a harley anyway so they got some harley gear. they also gave a free weekend rental and a discount if you bought a bike in a certain number of days.

i think indoctrination is a little harsh. they did what any dealer would have done if they were able to use their facilities to teach the class. over all, i had a great experience. don't know that i'll ever buy a harley. don't know that i'll ever buy anything from that shop. but i learned a lot about riding from there.

if you have the time, save the money and take it at a community college. i would only suggest taking it at a harley dealership if it's a time issue or you know the deal gives discounts on things you're already going to buy (gear or bikes) or gives away free rentals to help make up for the costs.

hope that helps.

RhadamYgg · #7 Unread post by **RhadamYgg** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:04 pm

RaoulDuke wrote:Thanks for the input. I had a sneaking suspicion that it was somewhat mired in H-D propaganda, but wasn't sure. Thing is, I've already tipped back a cup of the Harley Kool-Aid; I may start on a used Shadow or something to cut my teeth, but I'm most definitely Harley bound. Just something about 'em...

Anyway, is it worth $120 bucks to get a personal tour of the dealership? Probably not. I'm waiting to see what the student:instructor ratio is at the Community College. Rider's Edge is 5.5:1. I'm a big fan of personal attention, and I may need it (Heaven help me), so that may sway me if the College is 10:1 or better.

Glad I posted before I whipped out the credit card...

Thanks again!

--Ant.

When I was in the position to take the course - the sooner the better was best, I would certainly have paid a premium to go in sooner.

Propaganda aside, content-wise - it should be equivalent. I didn't take the Rider's Edge because the MSF course at a college was more accessible here.

RhadamYgg

RhadamYgg · #8 Unread post by **RhadamYgg** » Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:07 pm

dean owens wrote:as someone who has taken a riders edge course i can tell you what i know. i only took it because i could get into it quicker. two week wait verses a 3 month wait. it was worth it to me.

the course is on a buell blast. it's a small little bike and fun to learn on. all the videos are done to show guys riding harleys. from everything i've read and heard it is the exact same course. there was a some tour/shopping time. to be honest, it's not that bad. they walked us around the store and actually did a good job educating us on different sorts of gear that's out there. the dealership i went to gave a discount. and a few of the people in there were going to get a harley anyway so they got some harley gear. they also gave a free weekend rental and a discount if you bought a bike in a certain number of days.

i think indoctrination is a little harsh. they did what any dealer would have done if they were able to use their facilities to teach the class. over all, i had a great experience. don't know that i'll ever buy a harley. don't know that i'll ever buy anything from that shop. but i learned a lot about riding from there.

if you have the time, save the money and take it at a community college. i would only suggest taking it at a harley dealership if it's a time issue or you know the deal gives discounts on things you're already going to buy (gear or bikes) or gives away free rentals to help make up for the costs.

hope that helps.

I don't know if I'd call it indoctrination either - as it is voluntary.

I think it is more about conversion rates. If they offer the course x times a month and that turns in to two fully outfitted and bike purchasing individuals - this is a big deal to the dealership.

As sales tactics go - I actually don't mind this. Wouldn't mind it for auto manufacturers either. Promote that you have the safest drivers for make x, and ensure it by training your new car purchasers.

Of course, it would never work for cars..

RhadamYgg

ftbraggsrt4 · Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:25 pm

I enjoyed the Riders Edge. Learning on a 500cc bike ups the learning curve. we did two 5 hour days of in class work and two 8 hour days riding. I had a blast on the........blast

Tue Jun 24, 2008 4:30 pm

MSF requires a 6:1 student to instructor ratio.

It's neat to read the evals at the end of a MSF class and compare it to those of the riders edge. Often both get "there should be more riding time".

The overall objective of the course is to introduce you to the skills you need to safely ride a motorcycle. Neither course will make you proficient at either and you will need further practice once you leave if for no other reason than your bike being different than the course bikes.