The course, my first first and second first bike and my 02c

Message
Author
User avatar
Batan
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 2:10 pm
Sex: Male
My Motorcycle: '82/Honda/CB750F
Location: Vancouver, BC

The course, my first first and second first bike and my 02c

#1 Unread post by Batan »

DISCLAIMER: This post is my opinion and this experience should not be used as an excuse for teenagers of the world to justify buying a R1 as their first bike.
However, things are not black and white, take everything with a grain of salt. There are a lot of things to be factored in and this is my experience so far. ;)

A while ago I posted about the trouble of beginner bike market and my choice of first bike - an 82 Honda CB750F.
viewtopic.php?t=27945&highlight=
It was not my first choice and not an ideal beginner bike, but after researching it seemed like a good buy, solid bike well kept ticking off most of the right boxes. I wanted a GS500 but there was none for under 4ish grand. I bought the Honda about a month and a half before my course and hadn't touched it until after it. The "intro" on this forum thread went to hell (and back), "too much bike", "pilots don't start on fighter jets", etc etc, you know the drill. My reasoning about power to weight ratio(550lbs/72hp, not far off of a Suzuki GS500 @ 380lbs 52hp) and other things did not seem to matter and I had no real backing on my side as a newbie who's had never ridden a real motorcycle up to that point. I was just a guy trying to apply logic to things I admitedly had no experience with, just research and reasoning.

I took the course, and so did my wife with the best school in Vancouver, and it was a 6 day venture. Two day of class, two day lot riding and 2 day highway/city riding. The school indeed kicked "O Ring". I was extremely impressed with instructors and teaching methods and so were the others in the group and everybody I've talked to. It covered a lot of ground, from instructors throwing stuff at your head(like cones, seriously) and slapping your helmet riding behind you while you're doing a slalom to riding during Vancouver's busiest hours on busiest streets and highways. Five of us students were in the group, but that dropped down to 4 as one person had to drop out. That was even better as there was only 4 of us left which gave us more time and attention.
After the classes, we hit the lot on the third and fourth day and we were given Kawasaki Sherpas:
Image
I never thought I'd be doing things I was doing on a bike that quickly. The 5th day we went through some of the city and did some highway riding while still being on Sherpas.
The last day, we switched to bigger bikes while going through rush our traffic and busiest parts of the city and busiest highways. The two girls(ages 19 and 32, the latter being my wife) got the Ninja 250s, a fella that was with us, a 40year old fire fighter, was given a Vulcan 500 and I was given, and was very excited about that, a GS500E.
Perfect, as that's what I wanted all along. It was purple though, LOL. :D Oh well... looked something like this:
Image
I loved the bike. Very easy to ride, definitely quick enough.
We both did well during the course, I'd say perhaps "upper average". We did not suck at anything, we felt comfortable, did not drop the bikes but probably did not show amazing racing talent either(nor tried to), that's the way I see it anyway. During the class days we were asked if we had already bought bikes and what they were. Towards the end of the course, I talked to the instructors about my Honda as I wanted to know their opinion as well after finishing the course, and they seemed very positive about the choice. Out of curiosity, I also asked for recommendations on the bikes for two of us if were were to buy brand new bikes off the bat. What they recommended were Suzuki SV650, Yamaha FZ6 and similar.

The course went well and it so happened that, about 3 days after the course I actually managed to find a good deal on a GS500E. That was just great as that's what I was looking for all along and it was only a second good deal on that bike I've seen this year. I'd missed out on the first one earlier this year as people were bidding on it over the asking price!
With both of us wanting bikes, I was lucky enough to have two shots at a perfect first bike. I bought it for my wife and for me when I'm the only one riding. When we go out together which we mostly do, I ride the Honda. So far, I've logged about 90% of the mileage so far on the Honda but did take the GS500 out a few times. Which enables me to compare the two bikes later on from a new rider's point of view.

Anyway, we decided to go for the first ride right after I got the second bike. I was a bit nervous about the Honda as, not having ridden it, I had no clue how it would be and was about to find out if my reasoning was on the right course or if the flames were indeed right all along.
I got on it, and after about 3 blocks I realized that I had probably built up the hype for nothing as the CB was as smooth as butter. Having logged on a few miles on it, nothing terribly much but enough to get a feel for it, I can say that it really is a friendly bike to ride despite its weight. In some ways, it's easier for a newbie to ride then the GS500. GS500 is a dog to start off the line as it's got no torque down low which for a new rider might mean stalling/dumping it off the line. The CB has a fat torque curve, redlines low at 9500k so it's a very relaxed bike to ride with a linear powerband. Not that GS500 is high strung, far from it, but the CB is even more relaxed. Also, the GS500's front end feels a lot lighter and the suspension unloads quite easy.
You do feel the weight of the CB in the corners, of course. But is it overwhelming? No, not really. However, keep in mind that I have a somewhat cruiserish attitude towards riding. Mind you, after a while I did take it to the redline 2-3 times on a stretch of straight highway and yes, it's got some nads. But unlike GS500, it pulls very decent at 3k rpm so it does not need to be wound up. The GS500's power should be along the same lines, but it feels slower unless it's up there. Still, love the bicycle feeling of it after the CB. :D

In the end, my research and reasoning turned out to be in the right neigbourhood. I thought I'd like standard bikes for many reasons, and as it turns out, I do. I didn't particularly like sitting on cruisers, and I still don't. I thought I would not particularly like sport bike posture, and as it turns out , I don't.
If I could have gotten a couple of GS500s, I would have. But given the circumstances I am really glad I bought this particular CB750F.
What I was surprised with though is how much dual sports have grown on me, Sherpas are a hoot to ride and I can definitely see myself riding a KLR or a V-Strom, something I would not even considered until I started riding. Biggest thing about that being the fact that we plan on traveling.

I will call upon common internet wisdom and call at least one BS about it - Ninja 250 vs. tall people. Everybody and their dog claims that a tall person would be just fine on it. Perhaps some would but at least two are not. We're both relatively tall(6') and we both felt tortured by the size and posture of that bike. Not fun. So, my advice for new riders considering Ninja 250 is - sit on it first coz it might be physically small despite of what you read online.

One thing, probably most important one - I cannot imagine why would anybody get on any bike without taking the motorcycle course! I strongly believe that it should be mandatory everywhere. W/o the course, I think I'd rather start not on a 250cc, but on 125! Honestly.






And here are the bikes:

Image
Image

User avatar
storysunfolding
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3882
Joined: Wed Sep 21, 2005 10:20 am
Sex: Male
Years Riding: 22
My Motorcycle: Vstrom 650, S1000RR, XS850, ZX6R
Location: Reston Virginia

#2 Unread post by storysunfolding »

Awesome write up! Wish we had a course like that in the ol US of A.

Enjoy your riding and especially the cb :wink:
My Blog

Grasp life by the handlebars

pigsbladder
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 63
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:51 am
Sex: Male
Location: arkansas

#3 Unread post by pigsbladder »

I like the optional fire hydrant install on the suzuki :wink:
2007 Yamaha Warrior
2004 Yamaha YZF R6 *for sale*
2007 Yamaha FZ6

User avatar
gsJack
Legendary 500
Legendary 500
Posts: 544
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 12:44 pm
Sex: Male
Years Riding: 30
My Motorcycle: 02 GS500
Location: NE Ohio

#4 Unread post by gsJack »

Very good write up and a right on target appraisal of your two bikes. I traded my first bike a CB400T in on a 82 CB750K after 6 months and 6k miles of riding and put 80k miles on that 750 which had the same engine as your F model. After wearing out 4 Hondas I've put my last 140k miles on 2 GS500s.

My 1st GS was a 97 and needed much reving up and clutch slipping to get it off the line smoothly but I soon adjusted to it and put 80k fun miles on it with no mods except a front sprocket change. A 15T front sprocket to replace the standard 16T makes it much easier to get moving.

My 02 GS has the newer 3 circuit carbs replacing the 2 circuit ones and is tuned for better mid range and feels stronger all around except top end than the 97 did, much better for everyday riding. Pulls from 3k rpm like the 97 did from 4k rpm. Have 60k fun miles on the 02 GS now and still enjoying it.
407,211 miles in 30.1 years for 13,528 miles/year average. Started 7/21/84, updated 8/26/14

User avatar
Batan
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 2:10 pm
Sex: Male
My Motorcycle: '82/Honda/CB750F
Location: Vancouver, BC

#5 Unread post by Batan »

pigsbladder wrote:I like the optional fire hydrant install on the suzuki :wink:

Damn, you spotted my secret mod! :D
gsJack wrote:Very good write up and a right on target appraisal of your two bikes. I traded my first bike a CB400T in on a 82 CB750K after 6 months and 6k miles of riding and put 80k miles on that 750 which had the same engine as your F model. After wearing out 4 Hondas I've put my last 140k miles on 2 GS500s.

My 1st GS was a 97 and needed much reving up and clutch slipping to get it off the line smoothly but I soon adjusted to it and put 80k fun miles on it with no mods except a front sprocket change. A 15T front sprocket to replace the standard 16T makes it much easier to get moving.

My 02 GS has the newer 3 circuit carbs replacing the 2 circuit ones and is tuned for better mid range and feels stronger all around except top end than the 97 did, much better for everyday riding. Pulls from 3k rpm like the 97 did from 4k rpm. Have 60k fun miles on the 02 GS now and still enjoying it.
Yeah, the "K" is a very similar bike with "F" looking a bit sportier. I'm not sure if there's any difference in rake and other parameters. Comparing the "F" with sport bike specs, it falls into sport touring category judging by the weight, length, rake angle etc.
I forgot to add that the Honda is quite nicer to ride over bumps and rough road. However, I find both bikes VERY comfortable. So, to anybody looking at a GS500, I'm very impressed with its riding position. Seat is pretty good too.
BTW, the GS is 1994. How does the 15T sprocket affect highway riding?


Another correction, CB750F redlines at 10k, not 9.5. It makes the maximum HP at 9.5k, while making the maximum torque at 7.5l. Sounds damn good too.

User avatar
bikernana
Regular
Regular
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:08 pm
Sex: Male
Location: Washington State

#6 Unread post by bikernana »

Where is the location for the picture with the Suzuki and boats? It looks like a place I know, but not sure.
Stay Safe,

Biker Nana AKA Sandy

************************
2007 Suzuki C40 (Mine)
2007 Ninja 250 (My first but Hubby wanted me to have something w/more ccs.)
2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 (Hubby's)

User avatar
Batan
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 2:10 pm
Sex: Male
My Motorcycle: '82/Honda/CB750F
Location: Vancouver, BC

#7 Unread post by Batan »

bikernana wrote:Where is the location for the picture with the Suzuki and boats? It looks like a place I know, but not sure.
Port Moody, just north-east of downtown Vancouver.

User avatar
gsJack
Legendary 500
Legendary 500
Posts: 544
Joined: Sun Oct 10, 2004 12:44 pm
Sex: Male
Years Riding: 30
My Motorcycle: 02 GS500
Location: NE Ohio

#8 Unread post by gsJack »

Batan wrote:Yeah, the "K" is a very similar bike with "F" looking a bit sportier. I'm not sure if there's any difference in rake and other parameters. Comparing the "F" with sport bike specs, it falls into sport touring category judging by the weight, length, rake angle etc.
I forgot to add that the Honda is quite nicer to ride over bumps and rough road. However, I find both bikes VERY comfortable. So, to anybody looking at a GS500, I'm very impressed with its riding position. Seat is pretty good too.
BTW, the GS is 1994. How does the 15T sprocket affect highway riding?

Another correction, CB750F redlines at 10k, not 9.5. It makes the maximum HP at 9.5k, while making the maximum torque at 7.5l. Sounds damn good too.
My CB750K had a rake of 27.5* and was actually steeper than the 28.5* rake of the Nighthawk 650 I traded in on my first GS500. I think the GS's near sportbike rake of 25.5* is what sold me on the GSs, much fun to ride. :) They do accomodate taller riders much better than many other bikes.

The front springs are way too soft and have been changed to stiffer ones by most GS riders, I have the Progressives. There was some improvement with the F models of 04 and later.

A GS500 with stock gearing and tire sizes should show about 47-4800 rpm at 60 mph in top gear. That would be about 50-5100 rpm with a 15T front sprocket and is not really very noticeable on the freeway. I put the 15T on before my trips to the Smoky and Aderondak mountains in 01-2-3-4 involving some 400-500 mile freeway days to get there at 75-80 mph indicated (speedo about 10% high). I found the GSs quite comfortable at those speeds and I was 68 yo when I took that first 01 trip to the Smokies. Hardly notice the difference in rpms traveling and don't recall any noticeable difference in fual milage.

Some of the kids are putting in 13 and 14T front sprockets to make wheelies easier, not my thing. :laughing:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v443/ ... g-rpms.jpg

http://www.gstwins.com/gsboard/
407,211 miles in 30.1 years for 13,528 miles/year average. Started 7/21/84, updated 8/26/14

User avatar
Batan
Veteran
Veteran
Posts: 78
Joined: Sat May 10, 2008 2:10 pm
Sex: Male
My Motorcycle: '82/Honda/CB750F
Location: Vancouver, BC

#9 Unread post by Batan »

Thanks for the sprocket info. I should look into getting a 15T one. As for the my CB, I think the rake sits at the same angle as your K, although I can't recall exactly. I do remember that reading up on the specs and it fell more into the sport touring category.

User avatar
bikernana
Regular
Regular
Posts: 33
Joined: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:08 pm
Sex: Male
Location: Washington State

#10 Unread post by bikernana »

Port Moody, just north-east of downtown Vancouver.[/quote]

It's beautiful. I thought it was in Olympia Washington by Budd Inlet. Looks real close to it. [/quote]
Stay Safe,

Biker Nana AKA Sandy

************************
2007 Suzuki C40 (Mine)
2007 Ninja 250 (My first but Hubby wanted me to have something w/more ccs.)
2006 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 (Hubby's)

Post Reply