I just finished the MSF. The biggest thing I had trouble with and I am not really sure what the problem is or how to fix it. Looking where you want to go. I was hollered at all weekend about that and lost points for looking down in the curve. But....I feel that I am and I was making a real effort at it, and thinking during every run, don't look down...don't look down...look where I want to go. I was trying so hard, but still almost never was looking where I need to be. It was such a huge frustration for me.
My concern is that what does this mean to me on the road? How do I correct this? I don't know if it is not clicking with me where I "need" to look or exactly what. I really didn't feel I was staring down, I probably did glance down, how else would I know where the cones where. I know that is probably why I never did get the box. But I was turning my head and trying to look.
I have experienced and know about target fixation. I guess I am concerned, because that "not looking where I want to go" during the class was such an issue....maybe I shouldn't be on a bike.
Looking where you want to go
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Brackstone
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I wish I had more advice than to just look where you want to go but it's that simple.
Personally I don't recommend doing any riding in heavy traffic areas until you can perfect this. If you mess up a bit on a non-busy road you should be ok, but with lots of cars following you around I think it's dangerous.
Personally I don't recommend doing any riding in heavy traffic areas until you can perfect this. If you mess up a bit on a non-busy road you should be ok, but with lots of cars following you around I think it's dangerous.
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Nalian
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It can be something that folks struggle with, so don't feel that you're alone in it. For me it felt natural, but I think that had to do with the amount of pedal bike riding I did when I was younger.
I don't have any specific advice for you other than to keep telling yourself in your head to look where you want to go - or come up with another phrase that works for you. The other issue that often drives this for people is trust. You have to trust that your machine is going to do what you tell it to, that your body will do the right thing to make you turn, and that nothing is going to pop up in the road where you aren't looking while you're busy looking ahead.
Keep in mind that at all times you should be scanning the road ahead of you a few seconds or a few hundred feet. So when you're coming up to a turn (that isn't blind) you should already know what's on the road.
Not getting this skill down so you're doing it most of the time will be a problem for you because of two factors - target fixation and turning. Focusing on the focal point in a turn will cause you to turn widely and possibly hit that point. You won't set yourself up for the road you have just turned on to, which could also be a problem.
Basically - getting this skill down is pretty essential for motorcycling. That being said - don't feel discouraged by what happened to you at the MSF. All this means is that you should make a concerted effort in a parking lot of your choosing to keep practicing, until you're more comfortable.
I don't have any specific advice for you other than to keep telling yourself in your head to look where you want to go - or come up with another phrase that works for you. The other issue that often drives this for people is trust. You have to trust that your machine is going to do what you tell it to, that your body will do the right thing to make you turn, and that nothing is going to pop up in the road where you aren't looking while you're busy looking ahead.
Keep in mind that at all times you should be scanning the road ahead of you a few seconds or a few hundred feet. So when you're coming up to a turn (that isn't blind) you should already know what's on the road.
Not getting this skill down so you're doing it most of the time will be a problem for you because of two factors - target fixation and turning. Focusing on the focal point in a turn will cause you to turn widely and possibly hit that point. You won't set yourself up for the road you have just turned on to, which could also be a problem.
Basically - getting this skill down is pretty essential for motorcycling. That being said - don't feel discouraged by what happened to you at the MSF. All this means is that you should make a concerted effort in a parking lot of your choosing to keep practicing, until you're more comfortable.
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dean owens
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yeah, i don't really have great advice either. but i can say that it was hard for me. i guess having a big fairing on my bike helped me out because i couldn't look down. i wanted to - i just couldn't. but there were times that i wasn't looking where i needed to go and i came close to having an accident. and dropped my bike twice doing slow speed things because i was looking where i was rather than looking where i needed to go.
because of those experiences i just decided to trust my instructors and do what seemed against what was natural for me. and it's worked. i just had to force myself to do it. and i reminded myself that it's not much different than driving my truck. i don't look directly in front of my truck. i don't focus on a curb when turning. i don't focus on the shoulder. i focus on where i'm going. for me i just had to get it in my head. since then, riding has been so much more fun and safe.
all i can say is good luck and keep practicing. stay off busy and fast roads until you feel like you got it.
because of those experiences i just decided to trust my instructors and do what seemed against what was natural for me. and it's worked. i just had to force myself to do it. and i reminded myself that it's not much different than driving my truck. i don't look directly in front of my truck. i don't focus on a curb when turning. i don't focus on the shoulder. i focus on where i'm going. for me i just had to get it in my head. since then, riding has been so much more fun and safe.
all i can say is good luck and keep practicing. stay off busy and fast roads until you feel like you got it.
Current: 2006 Yamaha FZ6 (Faster Blue)
Previous: 1983 Honda GL650 Interstate (given back to previous owner)
Project: 1980 CX500 Custom - making a cafe racer
Previous: 1983 Honda GL650 Interstate (given back to previous owner)
Project: 1980 CX500 Custom - making a cafe racer
Nalian nailed it IMO.
I think looking down vs. looking where you're going is a trust and comfort issue. You will know where the curb or cone is and isn't by the sheer fact that you're looking into the road and not the sidewalk .
Practice in a parking lot and ride down your neighborhood streets to get more acquainted with riding. Concentrate on headturning during all of your practice trips.
I think looking down vs. looking where you're going is a trust and comfort issue. You will know where the curb or cone is and isn't by the sheer fact that you're looking into the road and not the sidewalk .
Practice in a parking lot and ride down your neighborhood streets to get more acquainted with riding. Concentrate on headturning during all of your practice trips.
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Dragon on Wheels
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Pretty much what the others said. You have to look where you want to go.
If you're having a lot of trouble and nothing is working, maybe you could try walking without ever looking at the floor, then riding a bike without looking at the ground, and so on. I don't know if that will work, but I just thought of it as a test.
If you're having a lot of trouble and nothing is working, maybe you could try walking without ever looking at the floor, then riding a bike without looking at the ground, and so on. I don't know if that will work, but I just thought of it as a test.
2007 Kawasaki Ninja 250
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Lion_Lady
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This is a REALLY REALLY hard thing to "coach" online.
You say you "finished" the BRC. Did you pass? What notes did your instructors make on your riding evaluation sheet (you should have that).
I'm certain that your instructors gave you some specific pointers based on what THEY saw you doing. How do you FEEL your cornering skills were at the end of the class (for a beginner)? "getting it, need practice" or "fail"? What do YOU think is the biggest obstacle to "getting your head around" in a corner?
Take a break, and try to think back on what they were telling you to do differently.
P
You say you "finished" the BRC. Did you pass? What notes did your instructors make on your riding evaluation sheet (you should have that).
I'm certain that your instructors gave you some specific pointers based on what THEY saw you doing. How do you FEEL your cornering skills were at the end of the class (for a beginner)? "getting it, need practice" or "fail"? What do YOU think is the biggest obstacle to "getting your head around" in a corner?
Take a break, and try to think back on what they were telling you to do differently.
P
Courage in women is often mistaken for insanity - Alice Paul
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StillTry'n
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goodies
I'll offer this.
When I took the course I felt just like you did.....probably worse.
I had never ridden a motorcycle in my life and I was thinking about....the throttle....the clutch.....the brakes....the ground.....and not laying the bike onto the ground!
And the instructor was also yelling at me "Dan, look over here! Look over here!
He was telling me that if I forgot about all that I was worried about that the motorcycle would just take on a life of it's own and miraculously go where I was looking.
I will try to compare that to firing a handgun with a violent recoil.
If you are brand new to guns and their recoil: once you fire a gun and feel that recoil, the next time you pull the trigger you will deliberately try to prevent the gun from recoiling, by holding the gun down to keep it from going up.
You will then cause the gun to fire way off target, because you have prevented the gun from doing what it wants to do.
You must "forget" the gun's recoil (not easy, I might add): and then it will hit the target where you aimed the muzzle!
Same with "aiming" your bike in the direction where you want it to go.
Next, goodies......comes trust, in the above.
Once you (and me, too) get it.....we'll be bikers.
Dan
I'll offer this.
When I took the course I felt just like you did.....probably worse.
I had never ridden a motorcycle in my life and I was thinking about....the throttle....the clutch.....the brakes....the ground.....and not laying the bike onto the ground!
And the instructor was also yelling at me "Dan, look over here! Look over here!
He was telling me that if I forgot about all that I was worried about that the motorcycle would just take on a life of it's own and miraculously go where I was looking.
I will try to compare that to firing a handgun with a violent recoil.
If you are brand new to guns and their recoil: once you fire a gun and feel that recoil, the next time you pull the trigger you will deliberately try to prevent the gun from recoiling, by holding the gun down to keep it from going up.
You will then cause the gun to fire way off target, because you have prevented the gun from doing what it wants to do.
You must "forget" the gun's recoil (not easy, I might add): and then it will hit the target where you aimed the muzzle!
Same with "aiming" your bike in the direction where you want it to go.
Next, goodies......comes trust, in the above.
Once you (and me, too) get it.....we'll be bikers.
Dan
"Looking where you want to go" comes from the body's natural need to receive information in order to react appropriately. And not just information about dangers and obstacles but for the body itself to function normally. (Sight of course is one of the 5 senses so the other 4 come into play as well)
Eyesight and body direction go hand in hand. Prime example, the baby who's just learning how to roll over. What goes first? The head. The baby turns and looks to the side he's trying to roll to. Each time he turns and looks his little body is learning what other parts need to move in order for him to finally turn over. The baby reaches and squirms and does everything he can to figure out what movement will make him go further into the roll.
Same thing riding a motorcycle. The body will always return to center when the head is turned. So, you look at the spot you want to be once you make the turn and your body will make corrections to its movement to get you to that spot you are looking at.
It is also important you start seeing 'quickly'. Once you are in that spot your just turned to you must already be looking down the road to that next spot you want to be at. And that motor skill comes with time and practice. Your brain needs to become familiar with processing the information it receives. That's why a lot of inexperienced riders lose it in corners. The speed at which they're processing the information (and traveling) is too fast for the brain to process since it did not have sufficient time to learn how to process it at a slower speed. Now the brain cannot send out the appropriate signals to the hands, body, and feet as to what needs to be adjusted to correct the action ahead. At this point, it's already too late. It's like a person jumping into the deep end if the pool not knowing how to swim. The brain and body have no idea what needs to be done with the new information it is receiving in order to make you swim, unfortunately, it has a limited amount of time to guess right before you drown.
Eyesight and body direction go hand in hand. Prime example, the baby who's just learning how to roll over. What goes first? The head. The baby turns and looks to the side he's trying to roll to. Each time he turns and looks his little body is learning what other parts need to move in order for him to finally turn over. The baby reaches and squirms and does everything he can to figure out what movement will make him go further into the roll.
Same thing riding a motorcycle. The body will always return to center when the head is turned. So, you look at the spot you want to be once you make the turn and your body will make corrections to its movement to get you to that spot you are looking at.
It is also important you start seeing 'quickly'. Once you are in that spot your just turned to you must already be looking down the road to that next spot you want to be at. And that motor skill comes with time and practice. Your brain needs to become familiar with processing the information it receives. That's why a lot of inexperienced riders lose it in corners. The speed at which they're processing the information (and traveling) is too fast for the brain to process since it did not have sufficient time to learn how to process it at a slower speed. Now the brain cannot send out the appropriate signals to the hands, body, and feet as to what needs to be adjusted to correct the action ahead. At this point, it's already too late. It's like a person jumping into the deep end if the pool not knowing how to swim. The brain and body have no idea what needs to be done with the new information it is receiving in order to make you swim, unfortunately, it has a limited amount of time to guess right before you drown.