braking practice

[ccshamp]

I was practicing some tight turns, u-turns, and sudden stops yesterday. I don't particularly enjoy the drills but I know that practicing is the only way to improve.

I've been trying to pick up the speed for my braking practice and yesterday the rear wheel fishtailed as I stopped. I was able to regain control easily and stop safely and in control. However, I'm afraid that my instinct was to release both brakes and then reapply.



Correct me if I'm wrong (please!), but as I see it, the fishtailing was evidence of the rear brake locking. And when that's the case, I need to keep the rear brake on as releasing it (in the non-parking lot world) could send me into a highside.

Before I put the bike away for the season, I'd like to fix this bad instinct. I don't want to be thinking about this all winter as the anxiety builds. . .

Have others been through this? Are there specific exercises or ways to practice that might help?

[Shorts]

You're understanding what happened correctly. I think it's every young riders instinct to let go so don't worry, you're normal

Good job on the practice. What you can do now since you realize that you obviously made an error is to practice and now you're aware you use the rear brake too much. Now, go back and focus on using more front brake. There's no magic spell or dance to do and you're fixed - it will take a bit. But keep training yourself, you're on the right path now that you're understanding the concept

[Skier]

You can practice locking the rear tire and riding the skid to a complete stop in a straight line.

It's as straightforward as it sounds: get up to 10 MPH or so in a straight line and stand on that rear brake. Keep it locked until the bike has completely stopped.

You can get used to how the rear tire will feel loose but will continue to track the front tire.

[HYPERR]

Unless one has full mastery of the rear brakes(and 98.9% of riders don't), in a panic stop situation, the odds of the rear locking up is tremendous. Many experts including Keith Code suggests only using the front in a panic stop.

[Skier]

Unless one has full mastery of the rear brakes(and 98.9% of riders don't), in a panic stop situation, the odds of the rear locking up is tremendous. Many experts including Keith Code suggests only using the front in a panic stop.

Practicing maximum braking will all but eliminate unintended locking of the rear tire. Practice, practice, practice.

[MZ33]

I'm a little confused, Skier. Are you saying we should practice locking up the rear brake and also practice proper technique (i.e., using both brakes for maximum braking but with no front or rear lock-up)??

[HYPERR]

Unless one has full mastery of the rear brakes(and 98.9% of riders don't), in a panic stop situation, the odds of the rear locking up is tremendous. Many experts including Keith Code suggests only using the front in a panic stop.

Practicing maximum braking will all but eliminate unintended locking of the rear tire. Practice, practice, practice.

Are you 100% confident that you will not lock up the rear brakes in a panic situation? I am not. Since you used the words "all but eliminate" I am assuming you are not either.

In a panic stop, the front can do 100% of the stopping and the back at that point locks up no matter who you are.

Quote from Keith Code from his book "A Twist Of The Wrist 2":

"It's just a waste of time, you spend too much effort getting a little braking from the rear."

"Learn to totally rely on the front brake for quick, clean stopping; then if you still have the use for the rear, go ahead and use it. But realize that the rear brake is the source of a huge number of crashes both on and off the track."

Under the ideal condition, a highly experienced and skilled rider who is familiar with the braking system of that particular bike will pretty much always stop quicker using both brakes. The key word here is ideal. It is a totally different situation when the condition is not ideal and one is totally caught off guard.

Yes practicing certainly will help. However just because you are capable of taking the rear brake to the brink of lockup in a parking lot during a practice session does not mean you will be able to do so in an emergency situation on the road.

Basically for 99% of the riders in 99% of emergency situations, the chance of decreasing the stopping distance by using both brakes in a panic stop is completely overcome by the humongous increase in the possibility of a crash due to locking up the rear.

[Skier]

I'm a little confused, Skier. Are you saying we should practice locking up the rear brake and also practice proper technique (i.e., using both brakes for maximum braking but with no front or rear lock-up)??

One should know what it feels like. That's why I suggested practicing locking the rear wheel. I guess I should have clarified. Stand on the rear brake and don't touch the front. Feel the bike move around, understand that is what a rear wheel skid will feel like and file it away for later use. Say, if you over apply the rear in an emergency.

Unless one has full mastery of the rear brakes(and 98.9% of riders don't), in a panic stop situation, the odds of the rear locking up is tremendous. Many experts including Keith Code suggests only using the front in a panic stop.

Practicing maximum braking will all but eliminate unintended locking of the rear tire. Practice, practice, practice.

Are you 100% confident that you will not lock up the rear brakes in a panic situation? I am not. Since you used the words "all but eliminate" I am assuming you are not either.

In a panic stop, the front can do 100% of the stopping and the back at that point locks up no matter who you are.

Quote from Keith Code from his book "A Twist Of The Wrist 2":

"It's just a waste of time, you spend too much effort getting a little braking from the rear."

"Learn to totally rely on the front brake for quick, clean stopping; then if you still have the use for the rear, go ahead and use it. But realize that the rear brake is the source of a huge number of crashes both on and off the track."

Under the ideal condition, a highly experienced and skilled rider who is familiar with the braking system of that particular bike will pretty much always stop quicker using both brakes. The key word here is ideal. It is a totally different situation when the condition is not ideal and one is totally caught off guard.

Yes practicing certainly will help. However just because you are capable of taking the rear brake to the brink of lockup in a parking lot during a practice session does not mean you will be able to do so in an emergency situation on the road.

Basically for 99% of the riders in 99% of emergency situations, the chance of decreasing the stopping distance by using both brakes in a panic stop is completely overcome by the humongous increase in the possibility of a crash due to locking up the rear.

There's always fringe cases that rules are only applied to in limited amounts. It's a best practice to use both brakes, every time, and will work on everything but the best road surfaces with the best warm tires with the best brakes on certain styles of motorcycle frames (for example, race replicas).

I've said it before and I've said it again: the fear of locking the rear brake isn't worth throwing out 20 to 25 percent of your initial braking force.

Personally I still lock the rear tire when performing maximum braking, but that's because I don't release enough of the rear brake when weight transfers forward. Yet my technique has more stopping power than the same bike with same tires using a "front only" technique. I could probably eliminate the one or two foot skid the rear tire leaves if I practiced more, which I've been lax at in the past few months. ( )

Code's quote is a generalization about rear brake accidents. Crash after crash comes from the rider over applying the rear and under applying the front brake. Practice mitigates or eliminates this as a crash factor.

Your parting note about an increase in crash probability with a rear wheel skid only matters if the rider combines swerving and braking which will cause issues if the rear is locked or not.

[HYPERR]

I'm a little confused, Skier. Are you saying we should practice locking up the rear brake and also practice proper technique (i.e., using both brakes for maximum braking but with no front or rear lock-up)??

One should know what it feels like. That's why I suggested practicing locking the rear wheel. I guess I should have clarified. Stand on the rear brake and don't touch the front. Feel the bike move around, understand that is what a rear wheel skid will feel like and file it away for later use. Say, if you over apply the rear in an emergency.

Unless one has full mastery of the rear brakes(and 98.9% of riders don't), in a panic stop situation, the odds of the rear locking up is tremendous. Many experts including Keith Code suggests only using the front in a panic stop.

Practicing maximum braking will all but eliminate unintended locking of the rear tire. Practice, practice, practice.

Are you 100% confident that you will not lock up the rear brakes in a panic situation? I am not. Since you used the words "all but eliminate" I am assuming you are not either.

In a panic stop, the front can do 100% of the stopping and the back at that point locks up no matter who you are.

Quote from Keith Code from his book "A Twist Of The Wrist 2":

"It's just a waste of time, you spend too much effort getting a little braking from the rear."

"Learn to totally rely on the front brake for quick, clean stopping; then if you still have the use for the rear, go ahead and use it. But realize that the rear brake is the source of a huge number of crashes both on and off the track."

Under the ideal condition, a highly experienced and skilled rider who is familiar with the braking system of that particular bike will pretty much always stop quicker using both brakes. The key word here is ideal. It is a totally different situation when the condition is not ideal and one is totally caught off guard.

Yes practicing certainly will help. However just because you are capable of taking the rear brake to the brink of lockup in a parking lot during a practice session does not mean you will be able to do so in an emergency situation on the road.

Basically for 99% of the riders in 99% of emergency situations, the chance of decreasing the stopping distance by using both brakes in a panic stop is completely overcome by the humongous increase in the possibility of a crash due to locking up the rear.

There's always fringe cases that rules are only applied to in limited amounts. It's a best practice to use both brakes, every time, and will work on everything but the best road surfaces with the best warm tires with the best brakes on certain styles of motorcycle frames (for example, race replicas).

I've said it before and I've said it again: the fear of locking the rear brake isn't worth throwing out 20 to 25 percent of your initial braking force.

Personally I still lock the rear tire when performing maximum braking, but that's because I don't release enough of the rear brake when weight transfers forward. Yet my technique has more stopping power than the same bike with same tires using a "front only" technique. I could probably eliminate the one or two foot skid the rear tire leaves if I practiced more, which I've been lax at in the past few months. ( )

Code's quote is a generalization about rear brake accidents. Crash after crash comes from the rider over applying the rear and under applying the front brake. Practice mitigates or eliminates this as a crash factor.

Your parting note about an increase in crash probability with a rear wheel skid only matters if the rider combines swerving and braking which will cause issues if the rear is locked or not.

Also depends on the bike too. I once had a XT225 that you couldn't lock up the rear if Shaq stood on it and stomped with all his might. The rear on the R1150R is hands down the easiest to lock up and pretty much the most worthless rear brakes I have ever had. I wouldn't for a second think about using the rear on that bike in a panic situation. Ironically it is one of the best rear brakes ever for trail braking though......Although I suppose the telelever helps quite a bit.
The brakes on the Hypermotard are excellent and you can pretty much easily take it to the brink of lockup. I would probably use both brakes on that bike in a panic.

[HYPERR]

Your parting note about an increase in crash probability with a rear wheel skid only matters if the rider combines swerving and braking which will cause issues if the rear is locked or not.

Actually what I was trying to say here was that for majority of riders, they are very likely to lock up the rear in a panic stop so they are not really gaining any advantage from using the rear......but "gaining" all the disadvantages by increasing their chance of a crash.