My Thoughts on Rider Education (long)

[Brackstone]

Why is that? I'm so confused...

Because that is what this thread is about.

Lacking confidence and thinking things over are both rational when it comes to motorcycles. If you aren't certain you can do something on a motorcycle then you can't.

Precisely and that's the problem, it's confidence, not knowledge. There is nothing you can't do after taking an MSF course that you need to do on a motorcycle to get out and ride.

That's the point of PASSING the course. You can be weak in certain areas, but if you drop the bike during the test you FAIL. If you can do something once you can do it again.

The point is to get them to feel confident enough when they are leaving the course that they know what they need to practice but still have confidence in their ability to ride.

Sure there are some advanced techniques that require more practice. But that's not what this thread is about. This thread is about having the confidence to ride.

[CaptCrashIdaho]

Way, way, way back in the day (according to legend and lore) the MSF course actually had a module called "Street Ride" where beginners went on a guided ride.

Maybe it did happen...maybe it din't. Don't know.

However lack of confidence is a real issue. How do you go from 12 hours of seat time to riding on the freeway?

You don't. You build up to it. One of the most important things we overlook in motorcycling is the idea of a Mentor. Not an video mentor, not a DVD mentor, but the opportunity to go out and ride with someone. It may be someone of the same skill or (hopefully) someone of greater skill who we can follow and emulate.

Mentor--–noun 1. a wise and trusted counselor or teacher.
2. an influential senior sponsor or supporter. (American Heritage)

I can point right at my first riding mentors. Regular guys, Rick Yamane, John Seegmiller, Richard Van Horn, Chaz Longmire...guys you've never hear of--but on a ride they'd get in front and lead. Then, they'd wave you by, and follow. At lunch they'd point out where you were doing good and where you were going wrong. They taught me to ride.

Can that experience be duplicated through watching hours and hours of webvideos? Or riding round and round in circles giving yourself feedback? I don't think so.

Out there somewhere are lots of people getting ready to uncrate thier bikes after a long winter. Some are very weak riders. Some are very strong. If you're weak? Look for a mentor. No one's so alone that they can't travel an hour to the shop to sit and talk--even if you have to drive your car. ASK for help. Take a class. Build relationships. Listen. Learn. RESPECT the body of knowledge out there and tap into it.

Find that local riders forum and post in it. Look for the group rides. Have friends in all families of riders.

And, when all is done, if you're too afraid to get licensed and ride on the road? That's OK! Just don't push your fear on everyone else. Embrace it. Likewise, if a rider is too frightened to go out of the parking lot? That's cool. Riding in traffic isn't for everyone. Let them do their thing.

Are you a strong rider? Then give the newbies a hand. Ride with the rookies. Lead the way. Give meaningful feedback. Be willing to go a little slower. Build the next generation. Remember the guy or gal who helped you out and YOU be the next mentor.

Newbies deserve some help--reach back and give them a hand! How can they become experienced if they never go for a ride?

[RhadamYgg]

Way, way, way back in the day (according to legend and lore) the MSF course actually had a module called "Street Ride" where beginners went on a guided ride......

Great post.

RhadamYgg

[RhadamYgg]

You know - the point I was trying to bring out with group riding as far as confidence building for new riders is pretty simple.

When I played the trumpet in high school and middle school my parent's got me lessons. In the beginning those lessons were simple - and covered the basics.

Later, my lessons covered very hard pieces. In fact, they were far harder than anything you'd play (typically) for an audience.

The reason for that is simple. When you can confidently play a piece that is 3 times as difficult as anything you'd perform in front of a group - performing in front of a group with those simpler but more musical pieces will be easy. A cakewalk.

My theory is that if a person who has confidence problems about riding should find a group (or in the Captain's post a mentor). The practice rides (on the street) should start with the mentor or group starting in a fairly simple situation. Most of us live in neighborhoods with lots of small roads.

It would probably be hard to get a group together for it, but a single person could go for a ride touring the neighborhood - as long as nobody has really loud pipes.

Then the execution should expand to more and more complex roads. The funny thing is that a lot of people express fear about the freeways and highways, but to me, that is one of the easier places to ride.

Now, of course, just because it works with trumpet playing and possibly other things, doesn't mean it works for riding motorcycles. And, in addition, my parents were paying a professional player for 1/2 hour lessons once a week. I don't remember how much it cost then, but I know lessons in the present cost a huge some for a professionals time. Professional trumpet players are more plentiful that professional motorcyclists, too.

But anyway, I'll stop here before I completely undermine my own point.

RhadamYgg

[ofblong]

Way, way, way back in the day (according to legend and lore) the MSF course actually had a module called "Street Ride" where beginners went on a guided ride.

Maybe it did happen...maybe it din't. Don't know.

However lack of confidence is a real issue. How do you go from 12 hours of seat time to riding on the freeway?

You don't. You build up to it. One of the most important things we overlook in motorcycling is the idea of a Mentor. Not an video mentor, not a DVD mentor, but the opportunity to go out and ride with someone. It may be someone of the same skill or (hopefully) someone of greater skill who we can follow and emulate.

Mentor--–noun 1. a wise and trusted counselor or teacher.
2. an influential senior sponsor or supporter. (American Heritage)

I can point right at my first riding mentors. Regular guys, Rick Yamane, John Seegmiller, Richard Van Horn, Chaz Longmire...guys you've never hear of--but on a ride they'd get in front and lead. Then, they'd wave you by, and follow. At lunch they'd point out where you were doing good and where you were going wrong. They taught me to ride.

Can that experience be duplicated through watching hours and hours of webvideos? Or riding round and round in circles giving yourself feedback? I don't think so.

Out there somewhere are lots of people getting ready to uncrate thier bikes after a long winter. Some are very weak riders. Some are very strong. If you're weak? Look for a mentor. No one's so alone that they can't travel an hour to the shop to sit and talk--even if you have to drive your car. ASK for help. Take a class. Build relationships. Listen. Learn. RESPECT the body of knowledge out there and tap into it.

Find that local riders forum and post in it. Look for the group rides. Have friends in all families of riders.

And, when all is done, if you're too afraid to get licensed and ride on the road? That's OK! Just don't push your fear on everyone else. Embrace it. Likewise, if a rider is too frightened to go out of the parking lot? That's cool. Riding in traffic isn't for everyone. Let them do their thing.

Are you a strong rider? Then give the newbies a hand. Ride with the rookies. Lead the way. Give meaningful feedback. Be willing to go a little slower. Build the next generation. Remember the guy or gal who helped you out and YOU be the next mentor.

Newbies deserve some help--reach back and give them a hand! How can they become experienced if they never go for a ride?

I went from riding during the MSF to picking up my bike 50 miles away and then having to RIDE it back on 70mph speed limit highways where if your not doing 75-80 your getting run over. So my first ride was about 40 miles of divided highway. I kept it at 70mph but it took me the first 10 miles to get into the "groove" of it. Does that mean I felt I was an "expert"? Heck no not even close. I am a stronger/better rider than I was 3 years ago but I am still no expert. Heck I used the MSF course where you jump the 2x4's that allowed me to properly jump a deer that had just been hit by a vehicle going the other direction.

[Brackstone]

That's exactly what I'm talking about.

A Mentoring program would be great. That is something I know I would volunteer for.

I can't teach the MSF since the schedule conflicts with me. However I'd love to ride around with newbies and help them feel better about riding

If there was an MSF Big Brother Big Sister program I'd sign up for that! Guess I'll have to just find local forums

[RhadamYgg]

Way, way, way back in the day (according to legend and lore) the MSF course actually had a module called "Street Ride" where beginners went on a guided ride.

Maybe it did happen...maybe it din't. Don't know.

However lack of confidence is a real issue. How do you go from 12 hours of seat time to riding on the freeway?

You don't. You build up to it. One of the most important things we overlook in motorcycling is the idea of a Mentor. Not an video mentor, not a DVD mentor, but the opportunity to go out and ride with someone. It may be someone of the same skill or (hopefully) someone of greater skill who we can follow and emulate.

Mentor--–noun 1. a wise and trusted counselor or teacher.
2. an influential senior sponsor or supporter. (American Heritage)

I can point right at my first riding mentors. Regular guys, Rick Yamane, John Seegmiller, Richard Van Horn, Chaz Longmire...guys you've never hear of--but on a ride they'd get in front and lead. Then, they'd wave you by, and follow. At lunch they'd point out where you were doing good and where you were going wrong. They taught me to ride.

Can that experience be duplicated through watching hours and hours of webvideos? Or riding round and round in circles giving yourself feedback? I don't think so.

Out there somewhere are lots of people getting ready to uncrate thier bikes after a long winter. Some are very weak riders. Some are very strong. If you're weak? Look for a mentor. No one's so alone that they can't travel an hour to the shop to sit and talk--even if you have to drive your car. ASK for help. Take a class. Build relationships. Listen. Learn. RESPECT the body of knowledge out there and tap into it.

Find that local riders forum and post in it. Look for the group rides. Have friends in all families of riders.

And, when all is done, if you're too afraid to get licensed and ride on the road? That's OK! Just don't push your fear on everyone else. Embrace it. Likewise, if a rider is too frightened to go out of the parking lot? That's cool. Riding in traffic isn't for everyone. Let them do their thing.

Are you a strong rider? Then give the newbies a hand. Ride with the rookies. Lead the way. Give meaningful feedback. Be willing to go a little slower. Build the next generation. Remember the guy or gal who helped you out and YOU be the next mentor.

Newbies deserve some help--reach back and give them a hand! How can they become experienced if they never go for a ride?

I went from riding during the MSF to picking up my bike 50 miles away and then having to RIDE it back on 70mph speed limit highways where if your not doing 75-80 your getting run over. So my first ride was about 40 miles of divided highway. I kept it at 70mph but it took me the first 10 miles to get into the "groove" of it. Does that mean I felt I was an "expert"? Heck no not even close. I am a stronger/better rider than I was 3 years ago but I am still no expert. Heck I used the MSF course where you jump the 2x4's that allowed me to properly jump a deer that had just been hit by a vehicle going the other direction.

This is the other side of the coin. I had a friend who was a programmer like me - sent to support a client for a go-live. There - to his astonishment - he was thrown in to writing dozens of Crystal reports for the client - in the VB 4 era when this kind of thing was not easy at all.

Its called being thrown in to the fire and he did it and did well. It just isn't what I'd call optimal.

RhadamYgg

[RhadamYgg]

That's exactly what I'm talking about.

A Mentoring program would be great. That is something I know I would volunteer for.

I can't teach the MSF since the schedule conflicts with me. However I'd love to ride around with newbies and help them feel better about riding

If there was an MSF Big Brother Big Sister program I'd sign up for that! Guess I'll have to just find local forums

That would be cool. Maybe there would be a way to form one - a group just for doing this teaching new people to ride through mentoring.

RhadamYgg

[tymanthius]

Mentors would be awesome. I'd love one!!

Perhaps this is an idea for a new sub-forum? PPl who are willing to mentor & who need mentors?

Once I'm confident, I'd be willing to assist, ride with, mentor.

[CaptCrashIdaho]

I went from riding during the MSF to picking up my bike 50 miles away and then having to RIDE it back on 70mph speed limit highways where if your not doing 75-80 your getting run over. So my first ride was about 40 miles of divided highway. I kept it at 70mph but it took me the first 10 miles to get into the "groove" of it. Does that mean I felt I was an "expert"? Heck no not even close. I am a stronger/better rider than I was 3 years ago but I am still no expert. Heck I used the MSF course where you jump the 2x4's that allowed me to properly jump a deer that had just been hit by a vehicle going the other direction.

Woof. Baptism by fire. That's a tough ride but you found out you could do it didn't you! Congratulations!