Lean Angle

[koji52]

IMO, nothing works better at increasing corning security than weight shifting achieved through correct body positioning. This doesn't necessarily mean hanging off - you can get 75% of the benefits without dropping a knee. It means getting the entire centerline of your body mass inside the centerline of the bike, as well as correct shoulder and arm positioning, correct head position and eye discipline, etc.

+1 on this. I can barely lean to the right on the v-rod before my exhaust starts scraping. I have been "hanging off" the bike to increase lean angle (until I find the time to pull everything off and put a spacer under the muffler bracket) and it definately works...although i'm probably not doing it with correct form.

[jstark47]

Coincidentally the October issue of Motorcycle Consumer News arrived today. There's an excellent article by Ken Condon on "Body Dynamics" covering points of body positioning while cornering. Good read.

[Grey Thumper]

What's the point of increasing lean angle anyway? IMHO, it's something you don't have direct control of. You directly control direction, speed, and your position (and weight) relative to the bike. Given those three variables, the bike's chassis and geometry "decide" the angle of lean.

[RhadamYgg]

I'd have to say man that I'm with Wrider and Buzz as well. You're looking too scientifically at riding. Trust in the bike and your skill, look where you're heading, maintain speed and don't grab the brake while leaned over. I scrape the pegs on my sportster and push them up frequently and can probably keep going (that's probably going a little faster than I should through a wide left turn at an intersection) but just don't have the rocks to "push it to the limit."

I understand you're trying to reduce your risks for the sake of your family, while trying to continuing to do what you love (ride) via research on gear and riding technique, but I think if you overthink everything you may be putting too much in your head. You want to just DO based on good experience, rather than think about the library of information you researched, look at the gadgets, then DO in an emergency. Don't get me wrong, more info is much better than no info and if everyone conducted half as much research on anything as you do, I think we'd probably all be a bit better off. But you don't want to read how far you can lean or rely on gadgets, and then get in a situation where you need to lean and not have the confidence to do so. Instinct is what saves all of us in those situations. It's definately saved my skin more than a few times.

Oh, I overthink everything, I'm sure. In fact, I think I'm a pretty good rider. But sometimes I look at a turn and I turn in to a Pansy.

And sometimes I do find that riding without thinking and I'll have done things that usually are a problem.

RhadamYgg

[RhadamYgg]

I had some issues with those kinds of turns at well for a while - so I spent sometime riding around one of the highway on/off ramp clovers we have here. I don't think knowing your lean angle is going to translate into something you can do about it - you'd be better off having a friend or someone behind you with a camera recording you.

I'm thinking of doing something similar - and just make the time for practice. Maybe mount a camera in my wife's minivan and she can follow me. I think someone else mentioned that down the list of messages.

RhadamYgg

[RhadamYgg]

I don’t think it’s a very good idea to try to be glancing at instrumentation while in a turn. You should always be looking as forward as possible into the turn.

+1

I'll have to see if I can take video and spin my tires that shows my chicken strips. Then we can say that I am or am not leaning enough. Not sure if I can take video of high enough quality to show the chicken strips, though.

I hope to heck you have chicken strips. If you don’t, you’re in imminent danger of crashing, you’re pushing the bike too far for the street. Keep reading…

There was this thing - I thought I could mount in front of my windscreen and look at briefly while going through some turns.

If you’re doing performance cornering, you shouldn’t be looking at anything except the corner exit and beyond.

Everytime I get some one who says they have fear of leaning, we find that the body positioning is all wrong. EVERY TIME.

Ding ding ding!! We have a winner!!! Paul “get’s it” …….

I had some issues with those kinds of turns at well for a while - so I spent sometime riding around one of the highway on/off ramp clovers we have here.

…… and Nalian knows how to have fun! In straight, flat, south New Jersey cloverleafs are the highpoint of my day…

OK, Rhadam, you want to increase lean angle? Or do you want to get around turns faster and more securely? Assuming it's the second, lean angle is not the whole key. You need to learn to shift weight on the bike through the turn. This allows you to turn faster with reduced lean angle - hence you'll have chicken strips. Look at pictures of really good sport bike racers hanging off in turns - you'll notice the bike is standing up straighter with riders doing it right than with riders who are messing up positioning and "pushing the bike" down underneath them.

IMO, nothing works better at increasing corning security than weight shifting achieved through correct body positioning. This doesn't necessarily mean hanging off - you can get 75% of the benefits without dropping a knee. It means getting the entire centerline of your body mass inside the centerline of the bike, as well as correct shoulder and arm positioning, correct head position and eye discipline, etc. Get a copy of Lee Parks' book "Total Control". He covers the correct riding position, breaks it down into a 10 step process.

I think the goal isn't necessarily about lean angle or security - although security in turns certainly rates higher.

I just want to make sure that I'm never riding too slowly through a turn or whatever that the cars behind me might eat me alive. Although sometimes this is unavoidable.

For example, I was taking 287 past the and then I even went past the 287 South area - I was going to go for a ride. Then 287 backed up - and I decided to exit. It was an unfamiliar exit and I took it slow, but at the caution signs limit.

I had this a$$hold creep up behind me flashing his lights? I was like WTF? I'm doing the recommended speed and I'm in front of you in a single lane road and you have to deal with the fact that I'm going slower.

The ramp was large - and had trees blocking the completion of the turn. So, even if I went faster it wouldn't necessarily be recommended, as I couldn't see what was ahead - if I was going to head in to more blocked up traffic or what.

Once I got around the trees and see ahead I took off - I didn't want the a$$ to be anywhere near me.

RhadamYgg

[RhadamYgg]

Coincidentally the October issue of Motorcycle Consumer News arrived today. There's an excellent article by Ken Condon on "Body Dynamics" covering points of body positioning while cornering. Good read.

You know, I keep thinking I have to subscribe to that magazine.

RhadamYgg

[RhadamYgg]

IMO, nothing works better at increasing corning security than weight shifting achieved through correct body positioning. This doesn't necessarily mean hanging off - you can get 75% of the benefits without dropping a knee. It means getting the entire centerline of your body mass inside the centerline of the bike, as well as correct shoulder and arm positioning, correct head position and eye discipline, etc.

+1 on this. I can barely lean to the right on the v-rod before my exhaust starts scraping. I have been "hanging off" the bike to increase lean angle (until I find the time to pull everything off and put a spacer under the muffler bracket) and it definately works...although i'm probably not doing it with correct form.

Dude, that is one sweet bike you have. But I like being able to turn - if you know, I had more confidence in it. We'll see what I can document to see if I'm actually having a problem or not.

RhadamYgg

[RhadamYgg]

Body positioning may be the issue.

When I ride the B-King I sit in a "very" standard position, but my nuts are scooched up right in to the gas tank. So, I can't move forward any further. Basically, the seat is narrow and then gets wider and I like to sit with my legs in the narrower section.

I'm not looking to put knees down to the road. I want to be able to out-handle in turning situations most cars - so that the threat from behind in the offramps/onramps and certain other turning scenarious is minimized as much as possible.

RhadamYgg

[tymanthius]

Caveat: Did not read all the posts, so forgive me if I am repeating.

If you're worried about lean, (I do too, but not as much as you, and I KNOW mine is body position), and you don't have the time or $ to go to one of the schools then get a good still and or video camera and have someone take LOTS of pictures of you.

At speed, you'll need a pretty good still camera.

Then post the pictures and let the motley crew here critique.