I really must protest about some words

[old-n-slow]

I agree with the substitution part of what you said, means the same on the inside. I still think it's a good idea to keep a forum as child-safe as possible...especially one like this, with so much family-fun related info on it.

If you think that the kids of today don't already know any words that a person might use, you are living in some fantasy world. I recall, some thirty years ago, listening to my three year old niece cursing out her brothers and sisters and using language that a drill sargent might have been surprised to hear. Where did she get those words from? Her mom sure didn't cuss, her dad never cusses, so I know it wasn't from around home.

I also spent a dozen years working for a school board. What can you say? Those sweet little girls with their pony tails or pigtails or whatever curls used language that made my hair curl, which is difficult as I don't have any on top.

By censoring certain words, the moderators of this site are simply imposing their moral values on us (which they have the right to do since it is their site). If you or I don't like it we don't have to return .........However they are not in any way protecting any children from learning language they don't already know. What they are doing is appeaseing those on here who are parents and want to believe the unbelievable, that their little Johnny doesn't know diddly about the world that surrounds him.

[cb360]

Well said old-n-slow. I doubt there are many kids on here under 13 ( I said many, not none) and by 13 I reckon today's kids have heard it all. I use bad language (doesn't bother me at all) with my friends and I don't see the big deal. I have an english degree and I've lived in different countries where cursing is a big part of the language culture. To me, language is just language. It's much more about intent and tone than words to me. I have some potty-mouthed friends that are the sweetest humans you'd ever want to meet. And we've all run across folks who are all vinegar and bile who'd never utter a four-letter word. It's ALL in the delivery. That said, this isn't my website. But I like it - I'll abide by whatever rules the owner sets. If the rules bugged me enough I'd leave. But it's not that big a deal. Language has continually evolved and will continue to do so. Many common curse words have taken their place in the common vernacular and are now used as adverbs and prepositions and modifiers in senses that are far from their literal definition. This will continue to happen. Protecting kids from these words is for the parent's appeasement and will ultimately have little effect. But at the same time it isn't a big deal to do without these words in a motorcycle forum.

[Psycluded]

First of all, I don't recognize any of those words as being "bad" or "wrong" to use. They're parts of vernacular english, used throughout the world. American English is more commonly frought with such expletives, it seems. Again, I really don't see a difference between the words themselves, merely the taboo and social stigma we attach to them.

I think that using expletives in common, everyday speech shows a lack of development in vocabulary and an overactive desire to impress those around you. I know I'm not alone in this belief. "Curse" words are an unnecessary addition to a usually otherwise clear and concise message. They are used by most people to add emotional "force" to whatever they're saying, again, using the stigmas and taboos that surround the use of the word.

*shrugs* If kids are using the words, the cure isn't to punish them, at least not only. Try teaching them some vocabulary to use instead. Buy them a thesaurus, for starters. Have them look up different ways to say things with different emphasis and emotional context. Have them THINK about what they're saying, and make an effort to never exaggerate.

[Sev]

It seems to me that there is not particular reason to use such words other then to shock or be offensive. It doesn't make your point any more salient by calling him a "procreating" jerk then it is to simply call him a jerk. It just indicates that you are willing to throw in an extra word.

The problem today is that people are to willing to put themselves first, we're talking about this like you're being limited in some way. You can still type the words and anyone who as typed them themselves, or posseses a modicum of intellegence knows what it means.

When you're reading the newspaper and you see, "there's a pile of $%)# in the toilet." You're smart enough to fill it in. I know that I read what is intended to be there, not the censoring of it.

Personally I find that I swear a lot, I think that part of it has to do with my work environment where it is considered unusual not to swear. But I make sure that I don't use that sort of language around people who will be offended. That is why I like the censoring here. If I slip up and write something that I shouldn't have it gets taken care of. And yes I worry about that sort of thing sometimes, possibly because I realize that the internet is infinitaly accessable starting from about age 4. I don't want to be the one who taught little kids to swear.

[cb360]

I don't want to be the one who taught little kids to swear.

I don't mind being the one who taught them to swear, I just don't want their parents to know they heard it from me The kids are going to learn it anyway... and the truth is, knowing those words won't hurt the kids one iota. By the time the kids learn what the words actually mean, they should know when to not use them. It's all part of socialization and you couldn't NOT learn it if you tried. Like I said before, you can offend me easily without using curse words and I can hear curse words all day long without being offended. Some of the finest literature ever written uses the vernacular. Language is not in and of itself an indicator of intelligence. Language is all about context and intent. It always has been and always will be based on situational use. I don't curse around my 80 year old mother because it would make her uncomfortable. I call my elders sir and mam. I don't curse in front of a new client. You get to know people and patterns of speech between you develop organically. IQs don't change based on speech patterns.

[Loonette]

By censoring certain words, the moderators of this site are simply imposing their moral values on us (which they have the right to do since it is their site). If you or I don't like it we don't have to return .........However they are not in any way protecting any children from learning language they don't already know. What they are doing is appeaseing those on here who are parents and want to believe the unbelievable, that their little Johnny doesn't know diddly about the world that surrounds him.

Erm... the "moderators" have nothing to do with the censoring of this site. It is an automated software program. The moderators do not go through the posts, using their own arbitrary morals to censor out words. This is done via the owner of the site and software.

Cheers,
Loonette

[iwannadie]

By censoring certain words, the moderators of this site are simply imposing their moral values on us (which they have the right to do since it is their site). If you or I don't like it we don't have to return .........However they are not in any way protecting any children from learning language they don't already know. What they are doing is appeaseing those on here who are parents and want to believe the unbelievable, that their little Johnny doesn't know diddly about the world that surrounds him.

Erm... the "moderators" have nothing to do with the censoring of this site. It is an automated software program. The moderators do not go through the posts, using their own arbitrary morals to censor out words. This is done via the owner of the site and software.

Cheers,
Loonette

ok if the mods dont censor anything then why do we have mods. i know ive seen threads(usually im involved in) have a mod come along and try to difuse or end the thread because They feel its not a good topic. to me thats imposing moral values right there.

[scan]

By censoring certain words, the moderators of this site are simply imposing their moral values on us (which they have the right to do since it is their site). If you or I don't like it we don't have to return .........However they are not in any way protecting any children from learning language they don't already know. What they are doing is appeaseing those on here who are parents and want to believe the unbelievable, that their little Johnny doesn't know diddly about the world that surrounds him.

Erm... the "moderators" have nothing to do with the censoring of this site. It is an automated software program. The moderators do not go through the posts, using their own arbitrary morals to censor out words. This is done via the owner of the site and software.

Cheers,
Loonette

ok if the mods dont censor anything then why do we have mods. i know ive seen threads(usually im involved in) have a mod come along and try to difuse or end the thread because They feel its not a good topic. to me thats imposing moral values right there.

The mods do not censor words. We do not do the changing from swear word to a replacement word. That is done by software. That is controlled by Mike - Totalmotorcycle.

Any issue with swear word censorship should be taken up with Mike.

The mods DO move and delete threads and posts sometimes. Mike has asked us to watch for spam (non-paid for advertisements) and remove it - plus suggest they could contact Mike if they want to advertise here. We also will censor racism or other hateful behavior. We are asked to use our judgment on moving or removing posts. Any issue you have with posts removed or moved you can take up with Mike - Totalmotorcycle. He will be glad to talk to you.

We mostly just try to maintain a friendly site that anyone feels welcome to participate. If we have hurt your feeling by correcting you sometimes, it was intended to help, not to be censor cops. If we are sometimes censor cops, it is only because we are trying to do a good job.

[cb360]

It seems to me that mods step in when things get personal, degenerate into flame wars, or go seriously off topic. I guess it SEEMS like moral values, but I don't think it really is per se. Unmoderated boards get out of hand really quickly and become unusable pretty quickly. I actually think the moderators here are pretty good. Not too heavy-handed, while still keeping things under control. I'll also add that this board needs less moderation than just about any I've seen - and that is a testament to its members.

[Loonette]

By censoring certain words, the moderators of this site are simply imposing their moral values on us (which they have the right to do since it is their site). If you or I don't like it we don't have to return .........However they are not in any way protecting any children from learning language they don't already know. What they are doing is appeaseing those on here who are parents and want to believe the unbelievable, that their little Johnny doesn't know diddly about the world that surrounds him.

Erm... the "moderators" have nothing to do with the censoring of this site. It is an automated software program. The moderators do not go through the posts, using their own arbitrary morals to censor out words. This is done via the owner of the site and software.

Cheers,
Loonette

ok if the mods dont censor anything then why do we have mods. i know ive seen threads(usually im involved in) have a mod come along and try to difuse or end the thread because They feel its not a good topic. to me thats imposing moral values right there.

You know, I swear so "procreating" much that it's a good thing there is a profanity censor on this site. The moderators step in when people become threatening to one another, when folks start to sling direct, off-topic insults at each other, or when there is spam found. Our job is to keep things "moderate". Take a look around - we don't dabble with too much, and things can get pretty heated here. And I was talking about the topic at hand which was swear words - and no, we do not censor those. It's done through software. And if you feel any of your posts were wrongfully removed, please let Mike know. If any of the moderators are abusing their (extremely limited) powers, please speak up and be specific. I believe I have remarked on or altered a total of three posts that were non-spam related.

There are times when we all interject our own morals here - after all, we are individuals. But none of the moderators have put on their moderator hats just to promote their own moralistic agenda. Take a look around and prove me wrong, if you can.

Loonette