I just dont get it - Bike displacement and Americans

[sapaul]

Surely location and geography have a lot to do with this, since the age of 35 I have never owned less than a 1000 and currently have a 1200(167bhp). Our average breakfast runs are 300kms round trip and weekend runs are 600 to 800 kms one way. I ride on the weekend runs from tank to tank, 2 to 3 hours at a time, but we have the roads to do this. We can travel for miles and not see another soul. Also a lot of bigger capacity bikes have shaft drive which means we do not have to worry so much on the longer runs. In the UK I rode a 250 and found this to be ideal but I also put it on the train sometimes and used the bike when we got there. As for luggage, we live in a warm dry country and do not have to take lots of heavy warm stuff. As for my pillion, she is well trained, she gets one pannier max weight 8kgs. G strings and t shirts compulsary if not out of choice.

[Analog]

i know one thing.if you get between a rock and a hard place while riding on the interstate highways here the more power you have got the better.no time for a 350 that will acelerate from 60 to 80 in the same day.

I couldn't agree more.

I suppose I'm one of the "american newbies" that Kal is referring to, since I was sharing a thread where Kal was basically telling another new guy that the rebel 250 cruises at 85 on the california interstates no problem.

Now, of course my experience in all realms of riding is extremely limited, but I just talked to a co-worker yesterday who has 3 bikes, none of which are above 750ccs, and one of them is the rebel 250... he has been riding for over 12 years and says that the 250 is dangerous on the freeway and he rarely takes it there because at 80 it starts to shake pretty good, and it gets blown around worse than his other bikes even on 55mph urban roads. This is basically a matter of function.... look at how many more scooters there are in european countries. - it's because of the terrain, and there's nothing wrong with that, but people drive their cages like maniacs here in the states, and a bike with the same speed capabilities as a Geo metro is just not always safe.....
of course, there are guys here in America who are all about the size thing, referring to sportsters as "girls bikes" and whatnot, but honestly there aren't that many of them on this forum.--- In fact, this forum probably has the most open-minded and non-judjemental users you'll find on the web.

My bike is just fine for me, and it is the slowest 600cc bike out there. But that's just me.. I am still learning the basics, but let me tell you, even at 600cc, I run into problems getting bullied on the highway, and i feel that once I become a competant rider and understand how to use power to my advantage, I'll want to have that extra boost just in case I need it. I'm not into big, heavy bikes at all, I just want something that is functional for all driving conditions where I live, in LA.

There's nothing wrong with being into bigger bikes... I'm not into it, but whatever... It's just like the crotch rocket guys who are into break neck speeds and having the fastest 1/4 mile, even though they aren't racers and only go to a track once a month... If that's your thing, go for it.

And, if you are happy on a 125cc or a scooter because you only need to ride around in town, that is great as well. Just remember that not all Americans thinks that displacement is important cause they need everything "big"... It's a matter of necessity at times.

[macktruckturner]

I've been to 18 countries, and 42 of our States - and trust me we don't have a monopoly on insane cage drivers. In fact, I'll venture to say Asia takes the cake when it comes to the world's worst drivers on 2+ wheels.

Most everyone here has covered the reasons adequately - and I'm definitely one of the "n00bs" when it comes to riding. I haven't ridden regularly in 8 years, and never in the US (did all my riding in Malaysia when I was younger, and dumber.) We have a faster paced society - everyone is in a hurry to get somewhere, even when they're waiting. If the speed limit is 35mph, you can safely bet you need to be doing closer to 50mph to not get run over. On the freeway with a 70mph speed limit, in a cage or not, going 70mph is not going to keep you with the "flow" of traffic - and that includes the 18 wheelers that will pass you going 80mph.

In order for most people to feel safe with large commutes, they need to have a vehicle that is responsive, and has the power to get out of it's own way quickly. I understand the opinion that SUV drivers are selfish bastards with no souls, hell bent on the destruction of mother earth - but I disagree. Sure there are more than a few out there that haven't ever even carried a full load of passengers, or more than a case of beer and some hot dogs home from the store. There are also plenty of people that car pool in them, carry large amounts of hardware or other goods from one place to another, etc. If you don't like them, you don't have to buy one. I see more utility in an honest to God truck myself, and I'll be buying one, complete with gas guzzling V8 (though really none of the smaller truck engines offer a significant economy advantage while maintaining appropriate power band), and 4WD. I also have a ranch, and the desire to be able to take my motocycle with me even if I'm rolling the cage.

Basically, it is the feeling of many experienced riders (I'm related to quite a few) that in this day it just flat isn't safe to ride sub-500cc bikes on the highway, especially with a passenger. 25 years ago it may have worked, and it may still work marginally today, but it isn't optimal in their opinions. I'll be buying an SV650, as it offers plenty for my simple needs, but I wouldn't go much smaller - and I probably won't go much larger either. The most powerful asset to safety you have is between your ears, so make sure to engage it when you drive/ride.

Anthony

[ZooTech]

And Zootech,
It's Americans like you, with that haughty attitude, thinking that you are so much better than everyone else simply because you had the fortune to be born in such a great country, that makes 90% of the rest of the world hate Americans. When I read some of the things you write, I am embarrassed that you are a fellow American. I don’t care how right you are, or think you are, think before you say something.

It's not a "haughty attitude" or a feeling of being "so much better than everyone else", it's called PRIDE, and it's something that is lacking in America these days. I'm sick of hearing our politicians apologize for our success and I'm sick of hearing how Europe has it all together much more than us. This whole debate about engine displacement turned into a vessel for calling America a land of excess, and I take that personally. It's easy for someone living in a 600 square foot "flat" and riding a 125cc motorized bicycle to say that what I have is "excessive".

[macktruckturner]

I'm with you ZooTech - pride is lacking these days. I miss my "excess" - but then I live in a storage container with a door, and a "pee" poor A/C - and I've learned to sleep right through anything smaller than 107mm rocket attacks. Keep being proud - it reminds me there's a lot worth going home to.

Anthony - aka SPC Martinez

[ZooTech]

I'm with you ZooTech - pride is lacking these days. I miss my "excess" - but then I live in a storage container with a door, and a "pee" poor A/C - and I've learned to sleep right through anything smaller than 107mm rocket attacks. Keep being proud - it reminds me there's a lot worth going home to.

Anthony - aka SPC Martinez

Well I for one am proud of you, Mack. And not just you as a soldier, but your efforts and the cause in general as well. It's brave individuals like you that keep this country safe for my kids to grow up in, and that do their best to spread this freedom we enjoy around the globe. I don't apologize for anything I have because it wasn't handed to me...it's a result of the blood, sweat, and tears of thousands of Americans that have fought and even died for the privileges we have.

A land of excess? No. It's a land of opportunity, folks. That's what makes me proud, not "haughty", to live here. And if anything is wrong with America these days it is no doubt due to the thousands of people who can't seem to understand this so they continue their efforts trying to make America more like Europe.

Anyway...come home soon, Mack...and God bless!

And, if you are happy on a 125cc or a scooter because you only need to ride around in town, that is great as well. Just remember that not all Americans thinks that displacement is important cause they need everything "big"... It's a matter of necessity at times.

Exactly. I don't remember putting anyone on the defensive for riding a "small" bike (small being a relative term), but the very title of this thread puts me on the defensive once again for owning a "big" bike (big being a relative term as well). I've already stated in another thread that if my place of residence was different and my commuting needs were different, I'd probably be riding a different motorcycle all together. For example, if I lived in the city and did a lot of 35mph and 45mph stop-light to stop-light riding, I'd prefer a nice standard with hard bags, like a V-Strom 650. As is stands, however, I live 15 miles outside of Columbus, and commute there daily for work and on the weekends to attend school or to hook up with friends that live on the other side of the city, so I frequent the freeways where a smaller cruiser is less desirable. The traffic on Interstate 33 travels at no less than 80mph every single morning, so you can either keep up or get behind a gravel semi in the slow lane and get bombarded with all the cr@p that falls off the trailer along the way. It just so happens that my '84 NightHawk 700SC had quite a time maintaining 80mph, so when I went shopping for a new bike I looked at anything 1000cc and up. Now I have a bike that cruises at 80mph @ 3500rpm, with more than adequate passing power in 5th gear. I also have all day comfort thanks to the stretched-out ergos, and I don't get blown around by all the cornfield-induced crosswinds or semi turbulence. I imagine these concerns don't exist in the U.K., so I can see the impracticality of such a machine in London. Germany, on the other hand, would consider my bike dangerous on the autobahn. It can only manage 140mph, after all, so I'd be likely to be rear-ended.

[Scott58]

This turned out to be a very interesting and insightful thread.

[Kal]

Thank you for the positive answers! I think I am getting there, I suspect the rest of the answers will come to me in October once I've driven over there. If not, expect more questions!

I will also put my hand up to being a tad grouchy and combative when I started this thread, a combination of not having had enough tea*, a tendancy to forget the new tat until after I've leant on it (doh!) and reading one too many threads on the newbie board.

In a lot of ways I view Motorbikes as the right tool for the right job. I've put pictures up in the house using a 12lb sledgehammer, so I know that I can do it using an excessive tool, but the tool best suited to the job is a claw hammer. I guess I just have difficulty perceiving a job suited to 1.5ltr+ displacement bikes, again hopefully a couple of weeks cruising round Florida will bring some understanding.

I sat on a RocketIII at BMF and the idea of low speed maneavours or dropping it at the lights terrified me. I'm hoping that it is an exercise in irony - it does make a fantastic trike though.

For the record despite being terrified of what Bush is going to do next and not understanding the bigger is better cultural thing, I dont have anything against Americans. Growing up where I did I was a frequent visitor on USAF Alconbury, Mildenhall and Lakenheath and met a lot of very nice Americans.



*When I was younger I was told by a USAF Sargeant that the last good cup of tea made in the US was in Boston, 1773.

[cb360]

Uh oh, You're going to Florida. You're not only going to see tons of hogs... you're going to see them riding in shorts and T-shirts without helmets like any other nation I suspect, it's tought generalizing about the US. It's just so damned big and diverse. Lot of different kinds of folks here. I for one am extremely happy with my small displacement bike and so is my wife - that's only 600ccs between the two of us! I do want a larger bike for 2-up touring, but I reckon a 750cc and certainly no more than 1000cc motor will be up to the task. I generally agree that in many respects we are a wasteful nation prone to excess. It truly bothers me the way we have squandered so much of our natural wealth. It also bothers me that the richest nation on earth can't find a way to make universal health care and secondary education easier for all of our citizens. Granted, there are those that don't try and those that make poor decisions. But in my experience their numbers are dwarfed by honest people who do work hard but can't find a way out of their economic circumstances. We have so much and some of us appreciate it so little. But that's a topic for another day...

[oldnslo]

I can't say what Europe is or was ever like, never having lived there, but I've lived in the US longer than just about anybody posting on this board, and changes have taken place in the last 20 years or so to make the descriptive word "pride" just a little less descriptive of our activities both here and abroad.
I know even saying this is fuel for a flame war, but suffice it to say this country is irretrievably changed by the happenings of the past couple decades, and will take more decades to get squared away, if ever.
You all can self-generate all the "pride" you want, but this is a different, but not better, place than it once was. I never felt the need to have a concealed weapon permit until 1986. Nobody locked their doors at home when I grew up, and it was common to leave the keys in the ignition of cars parked in the driveway. It was also an extrtemely rare event for anyone to get shot by his neighbor. Oh, yes, things have changed, to be sure.