The Media

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c-los · #21 Unread post by **c-los** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 10:46 am

sv-wolf wrote:The idea is to quietly indoctrinate the population from birth in establishment values. This is done through schools, colleges, community organisations and the media, including Hollywood. The story of how the business community influenced thes institutions to promote their interests is fascinating - if scary. They system allows a degree of debate in the media to give an illusion of free speech and free thinking but the limits of the debate are set by the limits of disagreement within the business community. It's very effective and mostly you don't realise it is happening.

Just like Chomsky said:

"The beauty of the democratic systems of thought control, as contrasted with their clumsy totalitarian counterparts, is that they operate by subtly establishing on a voluntary basis--aided by the force of nationalism and media control by substantial interests--presuppositions that set the limits of debate, rather than by imposing beliefs with a bludgeon. Then let the debate rage; the more lively and vigorous it is, the better the propaganda system is served, since the presuppositions (U.S. benevolence, lack of rational imperial goals, defensive posture, etc.) are more firmly established. Those who do not accept the fundamental principles of state propaganda are simply excluded from the debate (or if noticed, dismissed as “emotional,” “irresponsible,” etc.)."
Noam Chomsky - After the Cataclysm, 1979

Grunt · #22 Unread post by **Grunt** » Sat Sep 17, 2005 12:49 pm

Hey Mag,
As a veteran I feel the same way when I watch the news or read the local paper concerning the actions of the Bush administration and the portrayal of soldiers. Thank God for Fox News.

#23 Unread post by **sv-wolf** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:20 am

c-los wrote: Just like Chomsky said:

"The beauty of the democratic systems of thought control, as contrasted with their clumsy totalitarian counterparts, is that they operate by subtly establishing on a voluntary basis--aided by the force of nationalism and media control by substantial interests--presuppositions that set the limits of debate, rather than by imposing beliefs with a bludgeon. Then let the debate rage; the more lively and vigorous it is, the better the propaganda system is served, since the presuppositions (U.S. benevolence, lack of rational imperial goals, defensive posture, etc.) are more firmly established. Those who do not accept the fundamental principles of state propaganda are simply excluded from the debate (or if noticed, dismissed as “emotional,” “irresponsible,” etc.)."
Noam Chomsky - After the Cataclysm, 1979

Hi c-los

A Chomsky fan!!! I've not met many of them on the web excet on dedicated political sites.

It's far easier to promote simple emotional reactions like patriotism than it is to get across a complex, challenging idea, so I'm amazed he just seems to keep fighting his way forward year after year. Most people would have burnt out long ago. The conservative/liberal establishment has most of the winning hands ( - for now! Everything changes, sometime, that's for sure.)

I've got to say I think his politics are a bit simplistic (though refreshinglhy honest), but as a source of well-researched information, I just don't think there is anyone else like him around.

Cheers

Robkhb · #24 Unread post by **Robkhb** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 4:40 am

Grunt wrote:Hey Mag,
As a veteran I feel the same way when I watch the news or read the local paper concerning the actions of the Bush administration and the portrayal of soldiers. Thank God for Fox News.

You serious?

Grunt · #25 Unread post by **Grunt** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 7:56 am

I'm very serious. Based on the original topic, most people would not consider that motorcycle story anything other than entertainment. However motorcyclists could see something else; almost as if the journalist covering the story had a deep loathing for bikers.

As an Army vet and having buddies still serving, I'm able to see the current bias and loathing against the military and president Bush in the media. I finally stopped my newspaper subscription because of an agenda that would work it's way into print and skew the story based on emotions with enough facts thrown in to make it seem legitimate. Fox news has done a good job of keeping facts straight and would break many stories the others would not touch...until they had to. Still, I gather my news from many different sources and now I'm able to recognize the spin; from the left or right.

The majority of our military gathers their information from Fox News. Unfortunately the other networks sometimes make them feel like they are hated by their own country. So sad.

Robkhb · #26 Unread post by **Robkhb** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 8:13 am

Grunt wrote:I'm very serious. Based on the original topic, most people would not consider that motorcycle story anything other than entertainment. However motorcyclists could see something else; almost as if the journalist covering the story had a deep loathing for bikers.

As an Army vet and having buddies still serving, I'm able to see the current bias and loathing against the military and president Bush in the media. I finally stopped my newspaper subscription because of an agenda that would work it's way into print and skew the story based on emotions with enough facts thrown in to make it seem legitimate. Fox news has done a good job of keeping facts straight and would break many stories the others would not touch...until they had to. Still, I gather my news from many different sources and now I'm able to recognize the spin; from the left or right.

The majority of our military gathers their information from Fox News. Unfortunately the other networks sometimes make them feel like they are hated by their own country. So sad.

I promise you there is no bias or loathing of the military, now of Bush well that's another story. If you really think that Fox "news" keeps the facts straight, then with all due respect I think you are seriously misinformed. Fox has mastered the art of spin to the point where I only tune in to see what wonderful things the Republican party has done today to combat the evil liberal agenda which is tearing away at the very fabric of American society. (note the sarcasm)

Grunt · #27 Unread post by **Grunt** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 9:56 am

Robkhb wrote:
I promise you there is no bias or loathing of the military, now of Bush well that's another story.

Grunt wrote: President Bush is the military Commander-in-Chief.

Robkhb wrote:
Fox has mastered the art of spin to the point where I only tune in to see what wonderful things the Republican party has done today to combat the evil liberal agenda which is tearing away at the very fabric of American society. (note the sarcasm)

Grunt wrote: Still, I gather my news from many different sources and now I'm able to recognize the spin; from the left or right.

A book I would highly recommend is from a democrat that was a journalist for CBS. His name is Bernard Goldberg and the book is called BIAS. It's a real interesting book and some of the quotes from Dan Rather are priceless. Also a lot of bias in the media not necessarily comes from what is reported, but what is not reported. Take a look at the Nielsen (sp?) Ratings and one would find that Fox News is capitalizing on people wanting more news, less commentary.

Since we drifted somewhat away from motorcycle talk I just wanted to say my bike leans right.

SmotPoker · Mon Sep 19, 2005 10:06 am

Exaggeration and magnification is what the media does best. It's seems as of late that the reporters personal opinions show up more than the actual facts. And I believe that it is purpously done to stir such debate like this one.

What happened to the good old days when the media didn't show their bias? Or-Was there ever such a time?

As far as this story goes, more and more inexperienced riders are showing up on the streets and putting everyone in harms way. We can thank them for the stereotype!

Locally, the police have really clamped down on these riders. As for the stereotype, I'm not worried. Let my riding be an example that it isnt rue.

Robkhb · #29 Unread post by **Robkhb** » Mon Sep 19, 2005 2:36 pm

Grunt wrote:
Since we drifted somewhat away from motorcycle talk I just wanted to say my bike leans right.

That's so crazy, I would have never guessed that.

(more sarcasm)

Now let me go turn Fox "news" back on so I know which Democrat I need to blame for all the problems in society today.

If there has ever been a more willing pawn in the media furthering the right-wing agenda I can't think who it would be

#30 Unread post by **sv-wolf** » Tue Sep 20, 2005 3:34 am

Grunt wrote: Fox news has done a good job of keeping facts straight and would break many stories the others would not touch...until they had to.

I've said this before, but it seems worth repeating.

Fox news broadcasts to Europe as well as to America. The extreme right wing agenda of Fox news in America (as it appears to us here) would not go down well in Europe. Fox knows this and so gives a totally different spin to its European broadcasts. The same stories come out sounding completely different - usually with a more liberal spin, to suit European perceptions.

So much for Fox doing a good job of 'keeping facts straight', Grunt.

Fox, like all the media, liberal or conservative is dedicated to promoting establishment views to the exclusion of all others, and does it cynically and dishonestly.

Propaganda rules, OK. (though they've stopped calling it that and now call it 'PR' instead - but it's all crap.)