Safety in Numbers??

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Keyoke · #1 Unread post by **Keyoke** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:18 am

Sparked off by another thread on here, do we think it's safer to be riding with a group of mixed ability, where the less experienced bikers can learn from the more so, or is it better to learn solo before joing with others on a rideout?

Obviously this depends largely on the group doing the riding, but as a general rule?.....

ZooTech · #2 Unread post by **ZooTech** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:24 am

I try not to think that hard. Riding is supposed to be about relaxing and enjoying the open road, not sizing up all the riders in the group and going over all the "what if's" in your mind. I'm not trying to be cynical or anything, but I think some of you worry too much.

Keyoke · #3 Unread post by **Keyoke** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:28 am

Not to sound cocky, but i don't worry when i'm riding. Or at least not more than any road user should. I know where my limits are, and I ride within them Every now again, i push the envelope that little further, and gain new limits...

It's more the new riders that try too hard to keep up with the experienced riders that i was reffering to. Some of them may be naturally talented, and be able to do it. All too many simply arent, and it leads to more bad press for us....

flynrider · Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:50 am

It all depends on the riders in the group. For the sensible noobs, it can be a very educational experience. For those that are better riders in their minds than they are on the road, it can be a disaster.

I learned my twisty skills by riding with a group of riders that were track regulars. I knew my bike was no match for theirs, so I didn't even try to keep up with the lead pack. Eventually, I learned to ride my bike to its limits without killing myself. It was a slow process, though. Whenever I ride with a group that contains inexperience riders that try to keep up with the lead, I give them plenty of distance.

ZooTech · #5 Unread post by **ZooTech** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 10:58 am

I'm aware of the "bad press" concern...but you know what?...you gotta stop for a second and figure out what is inside your circle of influence, and what isn't. You can't do anything about the things that are outside your circle of influence (like what that "squid" was doing on the freeway the other day, or whatever), so please, from me to you, let it go. Now, as far as riding with inexperienced newbies, that's obviously your call. For me, I don't think about it. When I ride solo I'm solo, and if I'm asked along on a group ride I go, never considering there may be a newbie along for the ride that could spill his bike. Thing is, if you ride ahead of them, they could rearend you...but if you ride behind them, they could crash right in front of you and cause you to go down, too. So you're screwed either way, so it's just not worth thinking about. Just worry about what's in your circle of influence, and do your best to prepare for those things that aren't. If that means passing on a group ride due to a "what if", then so be it...that's your choice.

I guess I'm having a really hard time figuring out what a lot of people on this forum get out of motorcycling. I mean, I'm all for beautiful countryside and all, but I can see that from inside the safety of my truck. I'd say at least 90% of the rush I get from my bike is that it's inherently unsafe...taboo even...and that I can do things and feel things on my bike that I can't in a car. Some have said 1600cc's is overkill, some tout the Ninja 250 as a do-all motorcycle, and some spawn thread after thread about safety issues. Those people would be hard-pressed to convince me they even enjoy motorcycling, or that they don't enjoy some "Brady Bunch" diluted version of motorcycling like the drawings in your owner's manual portray. I for one get a rush from danger, which is in ample supply on a motorcycle. Some of you appear to be so afraid of dying or getting hurt I'm surprised you ever leave the house.

(BTW, I'm not picking on you, Keyoke. This has been on my mind for a while, what with all the safety-related threads constantly popping up. I even wrote to Rider magazine to complain that an entire article per issue dedicated to safety was overkill).

#6 Unread post by **cb360** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 11:37 am

some spawn thread after thread about safety issues. Those people would be hard-pressed to convince me they even enjoy motorcycling

I'm extremely safety-conscious AND I absolutely LOVE riding my bike, but I don't feel the need to try to convince you of it - it's for me and anyone else who's interested. I have no interest in converting a non-believer. I post my personal opinions and I post stuff for noobs and they can take it or leave it. I think safety training and being safety conscious saves lives be it on the construction site at my job, on the motorcycle where I ride, in my home where I put out a grease fire with my fire extinguisher next to the stove, at the lake where I gave my nephew CPR. I do safety training sometimes as part of my job. I don't forget all that stuff when I get on my bike. It's a state of mind, but it doesn't diminish the fun I have on my bike. I honestly don't think about it when I'm riding. Riding irresponsibly or not dressing safely just wouldn't be as much fun for me. You choose not to - fine. If you don't like safety articles or threads... don't read them. I'm not into racing - so I don't read the articles in my mags and I don't post in racing threads on the boards. Same thing. To each their own. A lot of members here didn't do the MSF thing and don't wear what the 'experts' call appropriate gear. So what? But surely you realize that a large part of the motorcycling community does care a great deal about safety issues and has an interest in discussing it. What's wrong with that? It's almost like you are saying safety-conscious folks can't have fun because they don't ride like you do. As long as there's not a "Zootech should wear a helmet" thread why does it bother you that other people like to talk about safety issues sometimes?

ZooTech · #7 Unread post by **ZooTech** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:02 pm

Hey now, I didn't make this personal. If you want to be a part of a forum where only agreement and fluffy sunshine blown up your arse is allowed, I have a few I could recommend to you. Otherwise posting in a publically-accessible internet forum is an invitation to disagreement. If you don't like that I suggest you take your own advice and skip over this.

Now, I don't take issue with people who gear up, but people do seem to take issue with people that don't. On behalf of all the poeple who ride helmetless while wearing muscle-tee's and loafers, let me just say, thanks for the concern...it's very heartwarming...but my personal safety is my personal business. You do what you gotta do to prevent road-rash or whatever, and I'll do whatever it is I choose to do.

I didn't intend on this turning into a discussion about wearing gear or not, I'm just asking how some of you can ride around with all this weight on your shoulders? My dad was a cop for 27 years, as some of you know, and he has a way of sucking the life and fun out of just about any activity with all his safety lectures. Just before we got to The Dragon a few weeks ago, I'd had about enough. I don't care for confrontation (well...at least...in real life, anyway) but I finally snapped at him and told him that I am well aware of the dangers associated with this sport and was willing to risk it anyway. I'm not challenging your right to discuss safety concerns, CB360, I'm just amazed by how much of this forum is dedicated to the subject. All this talk about starting on tiny bikes and taking safety courses and damn near no stories of sweet rides, close calls, adrenaline rushes, or anything like that. Just a bunch of whining about SUV's, cell phones, and crotch-rocket cowboys wearing nothing but shorts doing a 150-mph wheelie on the expressway.

All I'm saying is, live a little. There's so much negativity on this forum it's sickening. I love to see people post pics of their rides and adventures, or of their bikes, and talk about that really cool place they rode. Instead so many people use their motorcyle seat as a pulpit and spew forth hate for "cagers" (ironic since you're all cagers too, as are your significant others), SUV owners, cell phone owners (I own one, so what?), and, of course, how President Bush is destroying our way of life and drowning black people. In addition, there are threads like this one where "newbies" are regarded as some kind of plague, putting the lives of all the "experienced" riders at risk. Many of you should think back to your own half-arse learning experiences and how this group or that group let you ride along and learn if you wanted to.

So much for the adventurous spirit of a biker...

#8 Unread post by **cb360** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:17 pm

I don't intend anything personal either - just dropping the .02. I don't know if you are reacting to the recent accident posts or what... but I don't think I'll be needing the 'fluffy sunshine' websites. I like this one for the safety stuff I see as well as a ton of the other posts by the helmeted and non-helmeted alike. But I doubt the safety talk is going anywhere anytime soon. A lot of people just getting into motorcycling end up here after they google 'motorcycle'. A lot of those folks just took a safety class to get their license and either took the instructor seriously about the safety stuff, or have a genuine interest in it themselves. And some folks have been into safety since before I was born. Either way I do see a lot of stuff in here about rides, etc. including your trip to the dragon. I love that stuff too. As for the negativity... well, it is the internet

Wizzard · #9 Unread post by **Wizzard** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:38 pm

I really understand where Zoo is coming from on this thread . Now , I for one, have pimped the MSF course for the simple reason that I had one hell of a good time . Remember that when I took it I already had been riding for 45 years and I am still glad that I took it . I also learned a great deal and what was way too kewl to see was over 3/4's of my class had never been on a bike before and at the end of it every one could ride except for one lady that dropped out .
We had really great instructors , much better than the ones that facilitated my spousettes class .
I think that people should wear what they want to , I don't care what others wear but I , like Zoo , resent the hell of anyone deciding for me . And if you think I am bad about it , you should hear my spousette .
She has been trying to find a sticker for her helmet that says; " I hate this effing thing"
On another thread that I had posted on , some one made a statement that they were not a biker but rather a motorcyclist . Well that's fine , I am a biker and proud to say that I have been a scooter tramp almost all of my life .
Certainly much better than never getting beyond the wannabe stage .
Sometimes I am really tempted to be outspoken then I think better of it .
Because I have to remember that bikers are a rare breed and motorcycle riders are a dime a dozen .
Kind regards, Wizzard

ZooTech · #10 Unread post by **ZooTech** » Thu Sep 22, 2005 12:52 pm

Well, I didn't mean to hijack the thread or anything. And, like you, I'm not trying to change anyone. My reply was out of pure curiousity...to see what makes other people tick. It's amazing to me to see the types of concerns that pop up in others' minds, all the while I'm trying to escape the overwhelming number of concerns in my life whenever I throw my leg over my bike. I don't take issue with safety-conscious riders, I just wonder how they overcome their own inhibitions when motorcycling is inherently dangerous in the first place, yet being safe seems to be all that's on their minds. I also cannot share this "concern for my fellow man" that some of you express through comments about riders you saw who were geared "improperly". Their gear was only "improper" if they were you, but they're not...they're another person with their own set of priorities. I suspect our points-of-view differ on this topic due to political differences, me being more for personal accountability and you leaning more towards Socialism (or whatever...you know what I mean).

In any case, I also have a feeling that personal beliefs come into play quite a bit as well. I know this life is temporary and inconsequential, and trust that God is in control and that His will will be done. For those that believe we evolved, and that this life is all there is, I can see why you'd be so concerned about hanging on to it. But I digress, please ignore this paragraph if you reply because I really don't care for another round of religious discussions.

cb360 wrote:I do see a lot of stuff in here about rides, etc. including your trip to the dragon. I love that stuff too.

Yeah, all I'm asking is for more of that! Everyone needs to carry a digital camera with them on their rides and show us their adventures! We need more positive subject matter 'round here...something other than statistics, crashes, and deaths.

cb360 wrote:As for the negativity... well, it is the internet

Touche'!

You got me there, CB, but this is our forum and our little dysfunctional family, right? So we can control the underlying mood of the forum and concentrate on more positive things, can't we? Safety and tragedy have their place, but I think we've got 'em covered pretty well by now.

Wizzard wrote:I have to remember that bikers are a rare breed and motorcycle riders are a dime a dozen .

Dammit, Wizz, once again you manage to say in just one sentence what I barely managed to get out in an essay!