Synthetic oil in motorcycles

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floatsmyboat · Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:40 pm

I was reading in a boating forum about using synthetic oil in boats and tow vehichles. I made mention that I use it in everything including my motorcycle. Someone wrote back saying that synthetic oil will cause the clutch to slip on a motorcycle. Has anyone heard this before. I used to get some clutch chatter when the oil thinned out from stop and go city traffic, but when I swithced to synthetic I do not have that problem, and have never had clutch slippage.

Greg O.

#2 Unread post by **Skier** » Wed Nov 16, 2005 5:50 pm

Using synthetic oil in and of itself shouldn't cause a wet clutch to slip. It's when there are additives to oil that earn it the badge of "energy conserving" that problems arise. These energy-conserving oils are great in cars and the like, where the cluth is not immersed in the oil for the engine, but can allow a wet clutch to slip. Those energy-conserving oils can be quite good at making things slippery, which is not what you want a wet clutch to be.

My $0.02: I run dino oil in my vehicles because I'm not sold on long oil change intervals and my pocketbook agrees with using dino oil over synthetic.

paul246 · #3 Unread post by **paul246** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 2:15 am

You will get wide and varying opinions on this subject.

As already mentioned, its the "energy conserving" designation in the label doughnut or starburst that you have to mindful of. The friction modifier molybdenum is the culprit here, and it can lead to slipping wet clutches under heavy loads. Even motorcycle specfic oils have a degree of moly in them, but amounts are typically less than 500 ppm. Synthetic oil (in itself) has nothing to do with this issue.

Also typically, people equate synthetic oil only for longer drain intervals. However, there are so many OTHER benefits that a good full synthetic oil provides.

Notably, especially for a motorcycle, high heat protection and resistance to oxidation, much better than what the best conventional oil can hope to give.

Fast cold temperature pumpability, very important on start-up even on a nice summer morning.

Way superior film strength, again extremely important on cold starts and heavy loads.

Fewer viscosity modifiers are required in the better group IV and group V oils, thus making them more viscosity stable when run in a motorcycle engine/transmission combination.

I switched my '73 Honda CL350 to synthetic a few years ago and was amazed at how well the oil cleaned up the crap out of the engine. Normally the centrifugal oil cleaner (no normal cartridge on these bikes) has to be cleaned regularly of all the sludge accumulation. After a couple of oil changes this thing stays as clean as a whistle, obviously the synthetic oil isn't oxidizing like the conventional oil did.

As for those extended drain intervals, well, they were not made up. The manufactures did their research. Also, you can have the oil analyzed peridically by a lab, for a fee. The better way is to search your chosen brand on the internet and find one of the sites that offer this information. There are actually people who "chip-in" a few bucks to help support others who are actually using that particular brand and having it analyzed on a regular basis. The lab report will give all the great information relating to wear in specific areas of the engine and changes to viscosity.

I have been using synthetic car oil in my bikes and cars for years, also my powers tools..snowblower/lawnmower/weedeater/tiller. Great stuff.

Spiff · #4 Unread post by **Spiff** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 6:21 am

All good advice above.

I'd only add that any riders who decide to switch to synthetic oil should not do so with a new bike.

Use dino oils during the break-in period because synthetic oils will quite effectively halt that process.

Maybe after 5,000 miles or so...

#5 Unread post by **ZooTech** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 7:39 am

I've been using synthetic oil for years (specifically Mobil-1). I put it in my brand new Chevy Colorado at 1,000 miles and now change the oil every 10,000 miles. I put it in my Mean Streak at the initial service (600 miles) and also switched out the rear differential lube to Mobil-1 75w90 gear oil. I now have over 13k trouble-free miles on the bike and change the oil twice annually.

One thing to bear in mind is that dino oil, while heavily refined and filtered, is still imperfect and contains particals of varying sizes and even particals of substances that are harmful to your engine. Synthetic oils are created in a lab, so the only things you'll find in the oil are things deliberately put there by the lab. Also, Triumph puts synthetic oil in their bikes at the factory and each and every Corvette leaves the assembly line full of synthetic as well, so I'm not convinced about the whole break-in concern.

#6 Unread post by **cb360** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:47 am

Hmmmm - I've always used the regular old oil. I might try some of that synthetic stuff next oil change.

TechTMW · #7 Unread post by **TechTMW** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 8:56 am

I use synthetic. Paul246 did an excellent job explaining why

However, if it's an old POS, I don't waste the $$.

My BMW bike (long haul machine) and Turbo VW get the synthetic.

My Old VW polo and yamaha xj650 (city bike and car) get the dino oil.

(Keep in mind, I also live in Italy, and the last full synthetic oil change I did on my 2002 Turbo VW was $118 for the oil and the filter - did the labor myself)

If I lived in the states where oil is cheap, I'd go full synthetic on everything.

#8 Unread post by **Skier** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:23 am

paul246 wrote: As for those extended drain intervals, well, they were not made up. The manufactures did their research. Also, you can have the oil analyzed peridically by a lab, for a fee. The better way is to search your chosen brand on the internet and find one of the sites that offer this information. There are actually people who "chip-in" a few bucks to help support others who are actually using that particular brand and having it analyzed on a regular basis. The lab report will give all the great information relating to wear in specific areas of the engine and changes to viscosity.

I have done this on my Radian, which I've been giving a strict diet of car dino oil for about 8,000 of the 10,000 miles it's been in my care. I did this through Blackstone Labs. They also analyze my car's oil (which is looking mighty fine for having over 111,000 miles on just dino oil

).

What I get from this report is my Radian's oil change interval is just about right for the kind of riding I do (primary short commutes to work/campus). I would not want to run synthetic in the bike because I'd still be changing it out every 2,000 miles or so due to fuel dilution. If I had a bike where the motor wasn't quite so old and was in better shape, I'd certainly do some calculations to see if using synthetic oil will be cheaper in the long run.

ZooTech wrote:One thing to bear in mind is that dino oil, while heavily refined and filtered, is still imperfect and contains particals of varying sizes and even particals of substances that are harmful to your engine. Synthetic oils are created in a lab, so the only things you'll find in the oil are things deliberately put there by the lab.

From the reading and research I have done, dino oil base is so refined nowadays this is a moot point.

I can't wait for this thread to spiral out of control, everyone has a stance on what kind of oil to use, when to change it and how. A holy way always develops and it can be humorous to watch.

Chip Beazley · Thu Nov 17, 2005 9:46 am

I have been using Shell Rotella T synthetic my bikes for a while. It is formulated tor the extra pressures of diesel engines and seems to do quite well in my 96 750 Nighthawk. The bike runs quieter and shifts better using Rotella than other brands of oil I have used.

According to what I have read about Rotella T, the polymer chains hold up better in the common engine/gearbox environment that other types of oils. Also since it doesn't have the friction reducing additives it doesn't affect your oil bath clutch.

Another nice thing is it is available at your local Wally World for around $13 a gallon which sure beats the $8 a quart for synthetic oil at the dealership parts counter.

Check out the Rotella motorcycle forum at:

http://www.rotella.com/ubbthreads/postl ... ed&sb=5&o=

#10 Unread post by **ZooTech** » Thu Nov 17, 2005 11:13 am

Skier wrote:
ZooTech wrote:One thing to bear in mind is that dino oil, while heavily refined and filtered, is still imperfect and contains particals of varying sizes and even particals of substances that are harmful to your engine. Synthetic oils are created in a lab, so the only things you'll find in the oil are things deliberately put there by the lab.
From the reading and research I have done, dino oil base is so refined nowadays this is a moot point.

I can't wait for this thread to spiral out of control, everyone has a stance on what kind of oil to use, when to change it and how. A holy way always develops and it can be humorous to watch.

Nah, there's no reason for this discussion to become heated. No one can really argue that dino oil is bad, per se, they can only argue the merits of using synthetic oil, like a cooler operating temperature. All of the cost arguments that have been brought up do not apply when you practice extended oil change intervals as I do. You're not doing any harm by using dino oil and changing it every 3,000 miles. But I'd rather use synthetic and change it every ten.