I'm beginning to be less and less enthusiastic about the MSF

[Scott58]

I'm not for or against MSF. I think it's always good to have another choice. Some of us older riders never had the choices todays riders have, but I don't believe it's mandatory thing to do. What I find more interesting is how motorcycling has changed in the last 40 years. The fantasy (or romance or whatever you want to call it) has turned from big bike, open road, wind in your face rebel into over regulated hightech machine, 10lbs of leather, full faced helmet, gloves to your elbows and heavy steel toed booted lawyer or accountant. I don't have a problem with that provided it's their choice what they do and ride, but when they throw in helmet laws and promote manditory training and any number of other things then the subject changes quite a bit and I do take exception to it. I ride for the percieved freedom it affords, but unfortunately within the next 10 years it will probably be just as regulated as everything else on this planet. Sometimes i'd like to be younger so i'll have more time to enjoy this simple little thing we all love to do, but honestly i hope I'm old enough to park my bike before some of you get your way.

[CajunBass]

Again I hope you get back out there and take the course and get back on your bike with some training to work on that experience and this hasn't turned you off of motorcycling. Then again I guess its not for everyone.

Of course I haven't given up on motorcycling. I had already invested $6,000 in a Yamaha Majesty. Now, had I not already have made that investment, I would have given up and never thought about it again.

The thing that kept me going was the fact that I knew I could have passed the test on my bike. I had alreaady been doing it in the parking lot at church. I just went back and practiced harder and talked to the people at the DMV about exactly how they administered their test, and when I felt confident enough to pass I went to DMV and got my "M" endorsement. I felt pretty good about it, considering the instructors at the MSF had told us the DMV test was a lot harder than the test they were going to give us. As a matter of fact the instructor told us that "no one" could pass the DMV test.

So I'm riding my Majesty now. I've got a little over 2000 miles on it, and have started to comute to work weather permitting. It's an 80 mile one way trip, and I really enjoy it. Do I know everything? Heavens NO.

I may go back and take the MSF, I don't know. I think I was more at fault than the instructors. I'm sure they are good teachers, and both of them certainly could make a motorcycle set up and dance. I don't know if anyone else had trouble with the course. For all I know, I may have been the only one who wasn't "getting it." I can't really expect them to hold up the entire class to explain something to me. If I do, there won't be any pressure this time.

Am I against the MSF? Not at all. I do NOT think it should be manditory, but I tend be against a lot of things being manditory. Should people take it? If they want to.

What I would recomend though is that someone like me, who knows nothing about riding a motorcycle take a course they offer here, I'm told it's not availabe everywhere, called "Jump Start." I think if I had had more experience with a conventional motorcycle, I could have passed.

[cb360]

Yeah, the 'mandatory' thing raises hackles on lots of folks. But it's really no different than cars. I'm torn. On one hand I'm against overregulation and for personal freedom and choice. On the other hand, we have to share the road and cars and cycles out of control can kill people. My buddy in Ft. Myers says some of the retirees driving cars down there scare the hell out of him because they just can't see anymore and drive like it. I plan on driving (and riding) to a ripe old age... but if I can't get it in the garage without scraping anymore I hope somebody takes my keys!

[blues2cruise]

I may go back and take the MSF, I don't know. I think I was more at fault than the instructors. I'm sure they are good teachers, and both of them certainly could make a motorcycle set up and dance. I don't know if anyone else had trouble with the course. For all I know, I may have been the only one who wasn't "getting it." I can't really expect them to hold up the entire class to explain something to me. If I do, there won't be any pressure this time.

The instructors may know how to make a motorcycle set up and dance, but that doesn't necessarily make them good teachers.

A good teacher would see the problem and find another way to explain things. Don't blame yourself for "not getting it", blame the teachers.

[CentralOzzy]

I never took it. I think it's probably a good place to start if you're new to the whole hand-control concept, but I'm concerned they may over-do it a bit. What I mean is, the folks here on this forum who took it have all said they learned about countersteering from the course itself. My argument is, since countersteering is done instinctively, why even bring it up? A fresh newbie already has a ton of stuff to think and worry about, so telling them from the get-go that everything they thought they knew about steering was totally wrong when aboard a motorcycle, but ONLY above certain speeds (which differ from bike to bike) seems foolhearty to me. Let 'em worry about shifting, braking, and balance for a while. Telling them they will turn left to go right will make them nervous and they'll pay too much attention to the anomaly and not enough to the task at hand. I think countersteering is something that should be addressed in an advanced class once all the other issues have become second nature.

I think there is Merit in the point Zoo makes.

I had been riding for a very long time before I became aware of the counter-steering (Theory) technique....so off I rode to try it out....& I played with it a bit.... then I shrugged & never really gave it too much thought. I must have been using it sub-consciously, I guess I did OK without it being taught to me straight away.

Anyway, in my day there were no such courses! so new riders had to go it alone & work it out over time & experiences.

Teaching strategies will evolve over time & differ from State to State, however....I don't think it is necessarily 'bad' to teach counter-steering on a course, but all in the right time & context as not to flummox the student/s. Too much info too quickly can overload a normal brain especially an anxious one, so yes it comes down to good instruction to the group & the individuals.
I believe if C-S was left out of the beginner course, they'd still do well with quality instruction. Altogether It's a difficult scenario with way too many variables to say conclusively which is the best way to go.

By now I'd say most....if not all points regarding this topic have been covered well & it has been interesting to read everyone's thoughts & ideas....Although we don't agree all the time, I'm glad that we can all talk on a subject & not get too upset with the differing points of view.



(Like when I say Harley's are great value for money, reliable, & sound good with aftermarket pipes! )

[ZooTech]

Although we don't agree all the time, I'm glad that we can all talk on a subject & not get too upset with the differing points of view.



(Like when I say Harley's are great value for money, reliable, & sound good with aftermarket pipes! )

Them's fightin' words!!!

[driftage]

im reading this post a bit late.
i just wanted to say i wish the msf would first ask if you knew how to drive a stick.

that was the painfully long part.

i loved the avoiding and quick stop drills.

THAT honestly saved my "O Ring" one day. I was in traffic and a truck lost its load of boxes--i nver found out was inside them!!!!!!!!!!

i had nowhere to go but to stop. so thanks MSF you saved my "O Ring".

msf-good and bad but just take it i may or may not be better from it; but who cares-- you should never stop learning.

[temptin]

I think a lot of experience is going to come from practice, actually getting out on the road.......but, you can never learn enough. If you only learn 1 new thing from taking the class, that may be the thing that saves your life. I've seen 2 death's and 3 bad accadents from people who had been riding for a long time. Take the course and listen to anyone that's beeing kind enough to give you advice.

[Lion_Lady]

I know of a privately taught MSF course that if you DON'T pass the final road test, you don't get to re-take the test free the next weekend, you have to pay to retake the class (Where's the incentive for instructors to make sure students are "getting it"?)

Or you can pay to take the 'remedial' class so you'll be better prepared to take the 'real' class.

The whole thing sounded to me like a total scam bent on squeezing the maximum amount of money from folks anxious to learn to ride safely. It was slanted toward ensuring folks have to take at least TWO classes to get licensed.

I don't think the folks offering this are in business any longer.

P

[-Curly-]

I countersteer backwards. If I want to go right, I pull back with my left bar. I find it easyer to pull left than push right for some reason.