I still can't comprehend counter-steering

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Shiv · #1 Unread post by **Shiv** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:35 pm

I get the concept. Push right, turn right, push left, turn left.

But I can't get a mental picture of the physics at work. If you push right, and your front wheel turns to the left, then you should go left. And that's where I get confused because I can't imagine you turning your wheel to the left, the wheel facing the left, but somehow you're going right? Sounds like something out of a horribly programmed video game or something. Doesn't seem real at all.

I would think if you pushed right and tried to GO right it'd be the same as riding a (pedal) bike and suddenly turning your handle bars to the left and now you high side over your handle bars.

Is there an illustration somewhere of the forces that are reacting on the bike and the bike reacting to them?

I just can't visualize it in my head.

#2 Unread post by **Jamers!** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:36 pm

i dont get it either, and have been flamed for it. I get the concept. Though havent been able to pull it off very well. Useally just end up gettin wobblely and having to straighten up.

JWF

Sev · #3 Unread post by **Sev** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:44 pm

Take a pedal bike stand beside it. Now turn the front wheel to the left, the bike will tip to the right. Turn the wheel right, the bike will tip left.

That's the same basic idea. By turning the handles the opposite direction, you tip the bike to the hand you are pushing out.

It only works at highish speeds though.

VermilionX · Thu Feb 02, 2006 6:56 pm

Sevulturus wrote:Take a pedal bike stand beside it. Now turn the front wheel to the left, the bike will tip to the right. Turn the wheel right, the bike will tip left.

That's the same basic idea. By turning the handles the opposite direction, you tip the bike to the hand you are pushing out.

It only works at highish speeds though.

yeah and since you lean the bike to turn (again at higher speeds) counter-steering makes the bike lean to the direction you want to turn.

i don't use counter steering at low speeds.

#5 Unread post by **Jamers!** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:00 pm

VermilionX wrote:
Sevulturus wrote:Take a pedal bike stand beside it. Now turn the front wheel to the left, the bike will tip to the right. Turn the wheel right, the bike will tip left.

That's the same basic idea. By turning the handles the opposite direction, you tip the bike to the hand you are pushing out.

It only works at highish speeds though.
yeah and since you lean the bike to turn (again at higher speeds) counter-steering makes the bike lean to the direction you want to turn.

i don't use counter steering at low speeds.

ya, wouldnt made sense to. At low speeds it would turn the way you turn the way you steer it.

JWF

Shiv · #6 Unread post by **Shiv** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:00 pm

So does the road push the wheel into the correct location it needs to be?

I could see that. If you pushed right and the wheel started to turn left but then the forces from the road made the wheel go right or something like that.

I didn't experience it in the MSF I don't think. That was about 30 miles per hour. Was that not fast enough?

I thought it kicked in around 20 MPH as an average (though each bike is different I'm sure).

I dunno, it boggles my mind and I hate when I don't understand something.

I've already surrended the understanding of ladies, I don't want to not understand my bike as well.

yeah and since you lean the bike to turn (again at higher speeds) counter-steering makes the bike lean to the direction you want to turn.

I thought it was determined that leaning the bike only makes it lean, that you actually turn with the handle bars?

Yah here's the link: http://www.superbikeschool.com/machiner ... achine.php

Scott58 · #7 Unread post by **Scott58** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:02 pm

Watch a few dirt trackers. A few good power slides will demonstrate exactly what their talking about.

Sev · #8 Unread post by **Sev** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:02 pm

Counter steering doesn't work at slow speeds.

skoebl · #9 Unread post by **skoebl** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:05 pm

Rake, and its effect

Trail, and its effect

Sorry about the lame image quality...Don't have a scanner hooked up and the girlfriend's camera sucks at taking pictures without the flash....

Anyway, the rake picture shows that when you turn the wheel, the bike's center of gravity drops...combine that with the fact that the bike shifts laterally opposite in the direction that you turn, and you get counter-steering...or something..

Sorry, but I don't completely understand it, but i give you pictures

Shiv · #10 Unread post by **Shiv** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 7:05 pm

How slow is slow though?

I always read that it works at 20 miles per hour. Wikipedia says 5 (though I find that hard to comprehend as a bicycle does not counter-steer).