Staring Issues after winter storage

[gerpena]

This is what I have done in this order:

1. Filled the gas tank, made sure starter was cranking
2. Drained the carbs, made sure they are getting fuel
3. Recharged the battery with tender
4. Checked spark in old spark plugs— no blue spark
5. Replaced old spark plugs with new ones
6. Checked spark in new spark plugs— still no blue spark

I keep hearing suggestions that my sparks are flooded, however I do not know what this means exactly or how to troubleshoot this problem. Here is what I plan to try next:

1. Check oil in crankcase, check air filter
2. Connect my car battery to the bike battery
3. Try starting the bike
4. If this doesn’t work, then test the spark plugs again, with the car battery connected
5. if i still dont see a spark, then i am not sure what to check for next. the coils? the bike ran fine before the winter....

Where could I do my homework on flooding troubleshooting and research solutions? Thanks guys/gals.

--Gerardo

[gumby191]

What position is your petcock in (make sure its on). If you flooded the bike let it sit for a couple hours and try to get it started by using no choke and just add a little more every time you try to crank it over.

[dieziege]

If there is no spark with new plugs, either you are checking them wrong or there is an ignition problem. You are grounding the plugs, right?

Gotta have spark.

[gerpena]

If there is no spark with new plugs, either you are checking them wrong or there is an ignition problem. You are grounding the plugs, right?

Gotta have spark.

what do you mean grounding? i simply pulled them all out, put a new spark plug on one of coils, and tried to start the bike, looking for the spark. the battery was connected.

What position is your petcock in (make sure its on). If you flooded the bike let it sit for a couple hours and try to get it started by using no choke and just add a little more every time you try to crank it over.

my petcock is on. i will try waiting for 2 hours, like u suggest, and starting with no choke. sigh.

[Pongo]

You've got to have the spark plugs grounded to get a spark. That is, when you have the plug hanging on its lead, the threaded part of the plug must be touching the engine block (an unpainted part), if not it isn't grounded and will not spark.

Trying to test for a spark without having the plug(s) grounded can, and probably will, damage your ignition coil(s). It will weaken them and although the damage isn't always evident immediately a premature coil failure usually occurs later.

Maybe you already have weak or failed ignition coils.

Personally I wouldn't be hooking a car battery up to the bike.

[gerpena]

You've got to have the spark plugs grounded to get a spark. That is, when you have the plug hanging on its lead, the threaded part of the plug must be touching the engine block (an unpainted part), if not it isn't grounded and will not spark.

Trying to test for a spark without having the plug(s) grounded can, and probably will, damage your ignition coil(s). It will weaken them and although the damage isn't always evident immediately a premature coil failure usually occurs later.

Maybe you already have weak or failed ignition coils.

Personally I wouldn't be hooking a car battery up to the bike.

Thanks for the enlightening advice. The ignition coils are pretty old... so maybe they need replacing anyway, if I haven’t already killed them. I will look into this today. Tanks for the info on grounding the plugs, I had no clue. I will try what you suggest today.

How do you suggest I check to make sure my battery has enough juice to properly do its job? Someone told me just charging it with a tender is not enough, and for me taking it to have a load test every couple of days is impractical. What would you try?

[dieziege]

You are probably doing it right and I'm just not understanding what you are saying, but...

If the plug is just hanging loose (with the outer shell not touching, or at least very close to, the engine block) it will not spark. The spark has to go from the coil to the ground (negative battery terminal) through some path or another. Usually the path is spark wire, spark plug center electrode, outer shell of the spark plug, engine block, ground strap, battery. The spark will jump a bit of a distance, so the plug doesn't actually have to be touching the engine...but it must be close.


If you are doing that, and don't see spark, I would bet you have an ignition problem.

Edit...errr...what pongo said (that'll teach me not to start a post, get into a conversation with someone here, and then hit submit without checking to see if anyone answered alread. )

[-Holiday]

First of all, next season, store your bike for the winter correctly. This means draining all the gas out of the carbs and the tank. Take the battery out and put it on a battery tender, or at least just pull it and store it inside somewhere. These are all basic things anyone who owns a motorcycle should know.

The next thing they should know are the basic things needed to get a bike running. You need to do some reading, perhaps buy the manual for your bike. Dont rely on the forum to answer all o your questions because although it is helpful, you need to have some clue of what you're doing first. Youll learn things like that you need spark, compression (air) and fuel to make an engine run. Then from there you can learn how to test for each, find out which one you dont have, troubleshoot why you dont have it, then take it from there.

For spark, buy a damn multi meter. I seem to remember telling you this last fall when you were having problems .

Here is one for $16 :

http://www.hobbytron.net/product1433.html

Please go buy one and learn to use it, even if your problem does not end up being electrical. You will get your moneys worth out of it.

Here is a link to help you learn how to use it to test your battery:

http://www.techguys.ca/howto/multimeter.html

You need it to test to see if batteries are holding a charge, to test your alternator, to test your battery under load, to test your coil. Without it you're just guessing or even worse, asking all the e-mechanics(including myself) online

Also, check out www.howstuffworks.com . Great site to give you an overall synopsis of how yourr engine works, or even how certain parts of your engine works.

Also, as was mentioned, pull a spark plug wire, put a NEW spark plug in it, one that you know works, then just simply lay it down on on the head, or somewhere on top of the engine. If possible, turn all the lights out and try to turn it over. Blue spark? Good. Very little or no spark? Ccheck to make sure the end of the plug is actually close to something metal. It needs something to arc off of. Still no spark? Then you have no juice getting to the plug, so you have a coil or battery problem. Go check to make sure the battery is putting out the correct voltage WHILE YOU TURN IT OVER. Have someone help you. If it is, then the battery is fine. Move onto the coil. Put you meter on the output sude of the coil and turn it over. Are you getting a reading? No? Bad coil.

Fuel:

you checked the tank for fuel. You checked to make sure it was getting INTO the carbs, but is it getting through them? Most carbs have a drain plug on the bottom of the bowls. You'll learn that when you learn to properly prepare your bike for winter storage . Try to drain them because if they arent draining the jets might be clogged and gas wont travel through the carbs. You can also try pulling the air box off and pouring a little but of gas into the carbs (like a bottle cap full) and then try to turn it over. If it starts and runs for 10 seconds or so then dies, then gas it not getting to your carbs.

These are all basic things you should learn.

All of that aside, based on the fact that it seems like you're getting gas to the carbs, its backfiring (that loud noise that scared you) and 9 times out of 10 you have compression (learning to test compression will be in another course ) you probably have an electrical problem, which goes back to what i said before, get a multi meter. A volt meter. See notes above on that.

[gerpena]

….as was mentioned, pull a spark plug wire, put a NEW spark plug in it, one that you know works, then just simply lay it down on on the head, or somewhere on top of the engine. If possible, turn all the lights out and try to turn it over. Blue spark? Good. Very little or no spark? Ccheck to make sure the end of the plug is actually close to something metal. It needs something to arc off of. Still no spark? Then you have no juice getting to the plug, so you have a coil or battery problem. Go check to make sure the battery is putting out the correct voltage WHILE YOU TURN IT OVER. Have someone help you. If it is, then the battery is fine. Move onto the coil. Put you meter on the output sude of the coil and turn it over. Are you getting a reading? No? Bad coil…..

Thanks for the humbling advice. I actually have a general idea on how engines work, I own and know how to use a multimeter (on your advice) , and own the Clymers manual. However, if there is one thing I am grossly incompetent on is working on motorcycles or engines in general, i apologize for that. This is my first bike and only my second vehicle. You suggestion on reading the manual before I ask questions is a good one I will take to heart. (the sad part is i actually did read it beforehand )

1. Thanks for the advice on winter storage. It looks like I have learned the hard way, but trust me when I tell you I won’t make the same mistakes next winter.
2. The link you sent me on testing the battery is gold. Thanks a million for that one.
3. I understand what you mean about troubleshooting in a logical and simple manner rather than just haphazardly testing everything. That is my goal and my hope is attaining it with experience. Part of the reason I struggle is because I don’t know some of the basic terminology and I figure I am going through the normal learning curve of doing things for the first time. No excuse, I know, but I am trying. I don’t know anyone else who owns a bike, and the truth is I have come a long way.
4. I checked drained the carbs yesterday and with the plugs off made sure the carbs where refilling with fuel. They are. I let them flow for a while in hopes of replenishing the bowls with good fuel.
5. Tonight I will check the oil filter and make sure there is no debris in the crankcase. I will also test the battery and the coils using the techniques you described as well as those described in my Clymers.

Thanks for taking the time to put me in my place; I honestly do appreciate the advice.

[-Holiday]

I just reread my post, and I kinda came across as an "O Ring" didnt i? Sorry about that

I guess what im trying to convey is that none of this is rocket science, and all the information you need is out there. I dont even come close to knowing everything or probably even being proficient, but I've been able to accomplish a lot just by tinkering and educating myself.
You seem like you're trying to do that. As I mentioned before if I were closer id be happy to come give you a hand and unload whatever little knowledge I have.

Ive only learned what I have because Ive been in the same situation you have over the years, being forced to fix something and not knowing how.

ANyhow, good luck. Post up what you find out as far as why your bike wont start so we know what happened, or if you have more questions..

-Brian