downshifting to 1st gear trouble...

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VermilionX · #31 Post by **VermilionX** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:27 pm

Skier wrote:
Yes. The clutch is there for a reason.

That said, I've done clutchless upshifting a few times, but I can get away with it because my drivetrain has a lot of slop to it: a chain on the loose end of spec and extremely worn cushions in the rear hub. Which means tons of room for shifting without the clutch, but it's tougher on parts when it comes meshing back together with lots of force. So I don't do it but once or twice a season.

no, i don't mean clutchless shifting...

i meant the ½ clutch when shifting instead of full clutch.

#32 Post by **Skier** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:29 pm

It's about the same. You're not disengaging it enough to make a worthwhile difference from no clutch at all.

VermilionX · #33 Post by **VermilionX** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:33 pm

Skier wrote:It's about the same. You're not disengaging it enough to make a worthwhile difference from no clutch at all.

i see... so all the while im doing clutchless shifting already. im not sure whether i should feel good or feel bad.

anyway... i'll guess i'll find out when i hit 4000 miles and bring it for my next oil change and see what comes out of the engine oil.

thanks guys... i really appreciate the help.

Shiv · #34 Post by **Shiv** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:43 pm

Well you're doing clutchless shifting in the sense that you're jerking the collar out of the gear teeth.

The clutch pulls the collar away from the teeth. I'd imagine that a half clutch would pull it half way between the resting point and the part where it meshes with the gear.

Now I don't know how close the gears and the place of rest for the collar is in a GSXR but you'd be better off by pulling it in all the way.

But you're not clutchless shifting in the sense that you're matching engine speed and gear speed. To me it just sounds like a forced removal of the teeth from the gear at half way.

Or it might be completely clear of the gear when clutching half way. But I'd go with better safe than out a transmission.

VermilionX · #35 Post by **VermilionX** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:47 pm

well, i don't feel any jerking motion unless i didn't make the clutch movement smooth.

so that's why im thinking im doing it right even at ½ pull.

#36 Post by **Skier** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 5:49 pm

You're probably just fine, but just stop doing it. Easier to replace a clutch cable that's been stretched from use than a tranny.

Heimdall Einherjar · Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:08 pm

No offense Verm, but shouldn't you have learned these basics on a shittier bike before messing up such a nice piece of machinery as you ride?

Kal · #38 Post by **Kal** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:15 pm

VermilionX wrote:i think im faster when i do it this way instead of pulling it all the way.

Right, you think you are faster... I stongly doubt that you are though, and I'd put money on you not being faster through the gears than me...

Although to be fair there was so little time between gear changes on CeeGee I got a lot of practise shifting gears.

Anyways back to what I was going to say. Do you know where the bite point is on your clutch - the moment when the clutch engages and you feel it transmitting the power to the back wheel?

Well anything beyond that when pulling in your clutch isnt needed as your clutch is disengaged.

If you arent sure try engaging first from restand easing the clutch out. As you enter the bite point the front end of the bike will lift and it will try to move. Pull the clutch in and the front will drop back to rest because there is no power going to the rear wheel. Do it enough and you will know exactly where to find the bite point and will be able to shift faster using your clutch.

VermilionX · #39 Post by **VermilionX** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:16 pm

basics?

unless im mistaken, the instructor in our MSF said it doesn't take a full clutch to release the gears.

but i've been shifting like that even before i took the MSF so it's not new to me.

i think my bike is fine, im sure im gonna hear a crunching sound if the gears aren't released properly. but i don't hear any except the rare occasions that happen only during downshifting to 1st.

now i know downshifting to 1st gear doesn't follow the same pattern as the other gears.

but yeah, just to be on the safe side, i'll double check it w/ my mechanic.

VermilionX · #40 Post by **VermilionX** » Wed Apr 12, 2006 8:19 pm

Kal wrote: Anyways back to what I was going to say. Do you know where the bite point is on your clutch - the moment when the clutch engages and you feel it transmitting the power to the back wheel?

Well anything beyond that when pulling in your clutch isnt needed as your clutch is disengaged.

If you arent sure try engaging first from restand easing the clutch out. As you enter the bite point the front end of the bike will lift and it will try to move. Pull the clutch in and the front will drop back to rest because there is no power going to the rear wheel. Do it enough and you will know exactly where to find the bite point and will be able to shift faster using your clutch.[/i][/b]

im not exactly sure where but i know it's somewhere around or before ½ clutch.

i'll try to practice what you suggested though. thanks.