So much gear up top , so little protection down below...

[Sev]

I tried that argument once, it doesn't work either.

[ZooTech]

Zoo, I wonder if you were to work as an EMT in Florida during the summer months would change your opinion? I love hearing stories about how minor accidents turned out to be fatal because a helmet was infringing on that riders freedom....

But hey, live your own life.

My dad was an accident investigator for the Columbus Police Department for roughly 10 years (and a cop a total of 27). I have seen extremely gruesome photos of folks not wearing seatbelts or helmets. Fact of the matter is, we're all going to die sooner or later. Some of us are just a little more at peace with it than others I guess.

Welcome to the big, wide, bad world of the Internet, Zoomie. It's a place where many people are free to post their own opinions about anything.

Including me.

Maybe some day you'll realise that not everyone sees the world through your eyes.

I couldn't be any more aware of that. Sooo...what now? Am I supposed to feel embarrassed or ashamed?

we'll skip all that and go right to the part where you attempt to further twist the whole conversation to make it look like you're the victim while you back down.

Back down? From what? This is like the umpteenth time someone has started a "squid thread" and I didn't sit idly by. That's backing down? Or are you referring to how I eventually realize that talking to you is an exercise in futility and go look for more productive things to do?

Being a mere "motorcyclist" yourself, you probably wouldn't understand...

This coming from a guy who considers motorcycles as a "luxury item".

Please enlighten all of us, Gummi, and explain how your motorcycles are not.

Ok, Zoomie, here's the question - pay attention, now - if SweetTooth is by your definition a "mere motorcyclist", what do you consider yourself to be? I am SO waiting to hear the answer on this one!

A squid.

I would love to see you eat your words shortly after you eat some gravel. To consider yourself better than people who wear protective gear rates right up there as one of the most nonsensical, illogical pieces of tripe I have had the displeasure of reading on this board. Keeping in mind I have read just about every post Verm has made, you have excelled.

Where did I say I thought I was better than anyone??? If anything, the non-stop banter about people you all have observed wearing less than adequate gear is an indication of a "holier-than-thou" attitude...or did you manage to miss the point of my post?

i am saying it isnt "just about personal freedom" because what you do or dont do does affect my checkbook.

So does smoking, but we don't want to head down that slippery slope, do we?

[The Grinch]

Swing by Ohio if you ever get the chance and attend ANY motorcycle event. You'll find that the vast majority shows up in jeans, t-shirts, and sunglasses (and a big ol' smile!). Those folks are known as "bikers"

No. These people are known as "idiots". I, however, fully support anyone's right to be an idiot if they so choose as long as it doesn't affect me.

[t_bonee]

No. These people are known as "idiots". I, however, fully support anyone's right to be an idiot if they so choose as long as it doesn't affect me.

I believe these are the type of comments zootech was refering to.

[The Grinch]

I believe these are the type of comments zootech was refering to.

Any your point is... What exactly?

[Gummiente]

A squid.

'Nuff said.

[dieziege]

not trying to fan the flames but my oppinion is: i do think insurance is a valid point. im not trying to open the "helmets can cause head trauma because they are heavy" debate again. im simply stating, people who wear safety gear are to SOME DEGREE less likely to be injured as badly in certain common types of accidents. and if i pay for insurance (be it car/motorcycle/life/health) i will end up paying more because some people didnt want to wear gear that could have saved them.

As it works out, the "insurance will be more expensive" argument isn't quite so rational as some people think.

Fatal accidents where the cyclist was not wearing a helmet tend to be immediately fatal. The medical costs of "treating" those individuals tends to be very low.

Healthcare costs start fairly high, drop in the first year of life, are lowest in childhood, and increase steadily until about 50 years of age at which point they increase exponentially. Anual cost for elderly care is 4-5 times that of people in their teens. The oldest group consumes three times as much health care per person as those 65-74, and twice as much as those 75-84.

An increasing number of motor vehicle fatalities decreases the number of people who will live to old age in 20-60 years. By reducing the number of older people, society sees a TREMENDIOUS net savings. Insurance premiums are REDUCED, not increased.

The same can be said for smoking... though terminal lung cancer is more expensive than a fatal motorcycle accident, the total lifetime medical costs of someone who dies at 47 from lung cancer are many times lower than someone who dies of congestive heart failure at 87. Hundreds of thousands lower. So when you try to convince a smoker to quit smoking you are actually trying to raise my health insurance costs.

[ZooTech]

Swing by Ohio if you ever get the chance and attend ANY motorcycle event. You'll find that the vast majority shows up in jeans, t-shirts, and sunglasses (and a big ol' smile!). Those folks are known as "bikers"

No. These people are known as "idiots". I, however, fully support anyone's right to be an idiot if they so choose as long as it doesn't affect me.

And a lot of people think we're idiots just for riding in the first place. As a site created specifically for motorcycle enthusiasts, we should try to be supportive of one another and not go down the road of over-regulation. The more laws that get created to regulate motorcycle usage, the closer we get to outlawing motorcycles all together. I can't understand how it is I can get everyone all worked-up about Doug Simpson, who advocated banning motorcycles because they're unsafe, and the minute I turn around someone's attacking someone else within our own ranks. When a non-motorcyclist makes the argument that motorcycles are unsafe, he becomes an "idiot" that doesn't know what he's talking about. But when someone, like myself, takes motorcycling one step further by riding without gear, suddenly they're an idiot for being "unsafe". Apparently there's some imaginary thin line that exists between, "I know the inherent risks and I'm willing to take them to enjoy the experience that is motorcycling", and "Look at that bleeping idiot riding without [INSERT REQUIRED GARMENT HERE]".

Discussions like this could easily be avoided if folks would simply differentiate between behavior that could harm the rider and behavior that could harm those around him or her. I'm all for going after people who ride wheelies on the freeway or do stoppies in traffic. Those people are putting me and my children in harm's way if something doesn't go as envisioned. But if someone is riding down the freeway doing the speed limit but wearing nothing but a speedo, how on earth does that affect me or my children (nausea doesn't count!)?

Example:

Driving home today I spot a motorcycle next to me, 2 lanes across. We stop at a light and there is a car inbetween us and I can only see part of him. My initial thought was, "Good he's wearing his gear"

Why would that be your initial thought? People need to stop trying to be "big brother" to everyone else.

P.S. You're actually agreeing with me, XM, so this post wasn't really aimed at you. You have every right to think of me as an idiot but I respect you for recognizing my right to be one!

[CNF2002]

Im sure it all made sense in his head *L

You'd think below the waistline would be more valuable to him than above it.

[DirtyD86]

people on this forum really are too hard on riders who choose not to wear full gear. in folly beach where im from, riders will be cruising down the beach strip wearing nothing but tennis shoes and shorts, no shirt no helmet no nothing. it is their personal choice, it has no effect on you. so tell me, why does everyone get so bent out of shape whenever someone wearing less than you think appropriate is mentioned?

my young age might be part of my reasoning, but there is nothing like riding down the beach strip with the wind in your hair and the sun on your back