Someone please explain counter-steering to me

Message

MontyCarlo · #51 Post by **MontyCarlo** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:39 pm

Sevulturus wrote:So Jflasjhg, with all of that said. Why is it WAY tougher for me to turn if my passenger is leaning out of the turn? Or leaning against me?

They have no input to the front tire, according I should be overcoming their effect without an issue, but if my passenger is leaning hard against the turn then I have to fight them as well.

Are they generating gyroscopic force by leaning?

All the passenger is doing is shifting the center of mass (by leaning) and increasing the force required to execute the lean since the effective mass you're working against is larger. Momentum be it linear or angular is proportional to mass so you'll have to exert a larger force. The difference can be subtle or pronounced depending on how much the CM has shifted.

ZooTech · #52 Post by **ZooTech** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 1:40 pm

Pull my finger...

Sev · #53 Post by **Sev** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:10 pm

MontyCarlo wrote:
Sevulturus wrote:So Jflasjhg, with all of that said. Why is it WAY tougher for me to turn if my passenger is leaning out of the turn? Or leaning against me?

They have no input to the front tire, according I should be overcoming their effect without an issue, but if my passenger is leaning hard against the turn then I have to fight them as well.

Are they generating gyroscopic force by leaning?
All the passenger is doing is shifting the center of mass (by leaning) and increasing the force required to execute the lean since the effective mass you're working against is larger. Momentum be it linear or angular is proportional to mass so you'll have to exert a larger force. The difference can be subtle or pronounced depending on how much the CM has shifted.

So shifting weight can make a bike turn?

I was just told that it didn't.

MontyCarlo · #54 Post by **MontyCarlo** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:16 pm

Sevulturus wrote:
MontyCarlo wrote:
Sevulturus wrote:So Jflasjhg, with all of that said. Why is it WAY tougher for me to turn if my passenger is leaning out of the turn? Or leaning against me?

[snip]

So shifting weight can make a bike turn?

I was just told that it didn't.

That's not what I said. I said the passenger can change the magnitute and location of the center of mass. That's all. Countersteering still works by the same physics, but you're changing the dynamics of the location and size of the forces.

I was really just trying to clear this up without resorting to math

ZooTech · #55 Post by **ZooTech** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:17 pm

MontyCarlo wrote:I was really just trying to clear this up without resorting to math

Oh, but please do! We're all on the edge of our seats!

MontyCarlo · #56 Post by **MontyCarlo** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:24 pm

ZooTech wrote:
MontyCarlo wrote:I was really just trying to clear this up without resorting to math
Oh, but please do! We're all on the edge of our seats!

I could, but you just wouldn't understand

I'll just shut up now, you'll have to find some other way to pick on the new guy!

ZooTech · #57 Post by **ZooTech** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:32 pm

MontyCarlo wrote:I could, but you just wouldn't understand

Wouldn't understand, or wouldn't bother to read? I'm fairly certain I know what makes my bike turn, and this thread is a rerun.

camthepyro · #58 Post by **camthepyro** » Thu Apr 27, 2006 2:42 pm

Lol, yeah, this thread kinda ran away. I was mostly just asking how to counter-steer.

jflashg03 · #59 Post by **jflashg03** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:07 am

well you got your answer plus a whole lot more.
and to the rest of you... dont get your panties in a bunch. it was never meant to be personal. if you understand it, then you understand it. if you dont, then you dont. the question was posted, and now finally, there is a correct answer posted as well. if you dont like it because you cant understand it, then leave the physics talk up to us nerds.

NorthernPete · #60 Post by **NorthernPete** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 6:12 am

if you turn and dont fall over, youve got it down...... easy peezy japaneezey.