To the low CC/small bike crowd that recommends bikes to ppl.

Message

Shiv · #21 Post by **Shiv** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:30 pm

Well if he avoids any strange triangles he should be fine.

So keep your eyes peeled. Wouldn't want to have your honeymoon while getting probed by the aliens we can never seem to find.

...unless they're hot aliens with nice curves...
God it's late.

Scott58 · #22 Post by **Scott58** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:32 pm

Sorry dude, but I'm never going to recommend a 650 or larger bike to a beginner. It's about building confidence and reducing the consequences of mistakes. It's about learning to ride and noone is telling them to stick with that particular bike. I go from a Rebel 250 to a Suzuki S50 (vs800 intruder) so believe me when I tell you I know the difference between an 18 second 1/4 and a 13 second one. I understand your thrill with good acceleration i partake in it regularly. Do I need it? No. Do I like it? You betch ya. But there is no way I'd recommend it to a new rider. They'll figure out for themselves in due time what they want and actually live to make the choice.

earwig · #23 Post by **earwig** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 7:33 pm

Haha... I have a 50cc oldass 1/2 restored Sears 2 stroke scooter in my garage that I tool around on sometimes

dieziege · #24 Post by **dieziege** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:02 pm

I've ridden my Yamaha XS1100 a bit... 95HP inline 4.... torque up the ying yang... works fine, lasts a long time... it's my "first bike" if you want to call it that...

I'l be buying a Ninja 250 on Monday. Why?
1) Because I want to learn to wring all available performance out of a bike, and I think 20,000 miles or so (a year or two) on a 250 will help.
2) 45MPG SUCKS!
3) Frankly I think the "acceleration is a thrill" crowd is kinda weird. If you want to be pushed back in/on your seat, buy an airline ticket. Motorcycling is more like skiing... and I've never wished for a speedometer when skiing, nor cared how fast someone else could go.
4) I like machines that are suited to their purpose. A single-person vehicle should be able to merge onto a freeway safely, keep up with traffic, maneuver easily, and get good gas mileage. That means a comfortable top speed of ~90MPH, a 0-60 of 10 seconds, and a decent light package with good aerodynamics, good brakes, good gearing, 20-30HP, and a decent suspension. Anything more is a waste. Anything less is dangerous.

Having actually ridden only two bikes (which means "take this with a grain of salt")... a 20HP 250 and a 95HP 1100... my feeling is that anyone who gets "bored" with either bike simply lacks imagination and the ability to challenge themselves. Either bike can, if pushed, push back with more than enough force to challenge anyone. And what's the fun of riding if you aren't pushing the limits? The difference is that the 250 encourages pushing limits at parking lot speeds.

However, I wouldn't recommend the 250 I've ridden to anybody as a starter bike. It was geared wrong. Change the ratios to allow a 90-95MPH top speed in 5th and we're in business.

I'll admit I haven't ridden ANYTHING very much though. Maybe in three or four years I'll get tie...naw, that's BS... I've driven plenty of old sports cars that had less HP than some of the motorcycles people think they "need to prevent boredom", and I was never bored with them.

earwig · #25 Post by **earwig** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:45 pm

dieziege, nice opinions... mine are very different though

I pushed my last bike to its limits when i was dragging the darn pegs every time I took an aggressive ride through the hills around here... and I like the feeling of super fast acceleration and torque. Yes I like being pushed back in my seat... without a cage and windows around me. Maybe I am just an adrenaline junky but I could not have much fun on a 250 for an extended amount of time. That's right, I would be BORED.

Sev · #26 Post by **Sev** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 8:51 pm

You harp on us for pushing our opinions on others. Just because you were bored does not mean that someone else will be!

Mintbread · #27 Post by **Mintbread** » Fri Apr 28, 2006 9:32 pm

I can understand where you are coming from Earwig.
If I want meagre accelleration I will drive a car, if I want to blur my vision on take-off and feel my arms stretch as I come barrelling out of a corner, then I will ride my bike.
I can't see the point in getting a smaller bike and wringing its neck every time I ride as it would be no fun for me or the poor bike.

ZooTech · #28 Post by **ZooTech** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 2:27 am

Shiv wrote:I think you're referring to Kal. All Kal is trying to say (from what I gather) is that people buy 600cc+ bikes because they think that their lower bikes suck and don't have the power to do what they want them to do when in reality they just aren't riding their ride right.

Kal rides a 125. What is the "right" way to ride a 125 on the freeway? Once you chew on that for a couple seconds, you'll realize why 125cc bikes are illegal on the interstates.

Can you have fun on a 125? Hell yeah!...in the right setting, that is. But I do agree that a lot of the folks here that say a smaller bike is all you'll ever need (let's not argue the word "need", okay?) haven't ridden a larger bike and, therefore, need not even respond to the question.

Of course, in the end, you can never go wrong just buying what you like!

dieziege · #29 Post by **dieziege** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:39 am

Most people recommend to others what they want for themselves. I do it and I know others around here do too. And it isn't totally wrong... but it is often a mistake when the skill levels or goals of the advisor and advisee differ.

I'm a bit of an adrenaline junkie too

... but I get my thrills differently than you (so far).

Being able to scrape the pegs doesn't mean you've found the limit of a bike... you can scrape the pegs of many bikes at 10MPH...on curves they could take at 50MPH. Even going as fast as possible through a curve isn't necessarily finding the limit either. I don't know how to describe it... except by simile....

Years ago I was driving along a twisty strip of pavement in an older BMW (car). Not a high performance car... only about 100HP... but I was pushing it, jerking around corners, going as fast as I could go...as fast as I, who learned to drive in a front wheel drive car, thought it could go.... and I decided to push the limit a bit further... started applying more throttle around the corners, choosing my lines a little differently... and the rear tires started squeeling, sliding out, and the car went faster, and the control imputs needed were totally different but I was still in perfect control... and next thing I knew, I was going twice as fast. By pushing that limit I found a whole new range of performance that I had only known intellectually before that moment.

Could I have found that limit in a more innately thrilling car? Sure. It exists for every car. But a "good" car puts that line so far out that you are operating at the limits reflexes and response times before you touch the limits of the car. I think if I'd been driving a 911 Carrera 4 I the only thrill I experienced that day would've been keeping up with the machine as new challenges flashed into my awareness. I can get that thrill playing Quake.

I'm thinking the same can be said for motorcycles. That until you can throw the rear out around a corner you haven't touched it's limits. Until you can put a boot or knee down you haven't found the limits. Until you can ride on gravel and sand and in the rain you haven't pushed the limits.

Will I be able to do any of that? Don't know...time will tell. Will riding a 250 help? Don't know...time will tell. I hope so on both counts.

dieziege · #30 Post by **dieziege** » Sat Apr 29, 2006 3:56 am

ZooTech wrote: What is the "right" way to ride a 125 on the freeway?

Same way you'd drive a 60s era Austin Healey... if the motorcycle is geared properly. The 150cc interstate limit is based on low performance motors... get a nice 125 that produces 15-20HP (or more) and you won't have a problem as long as the top speed is high enough.

I've driven many cars with 15 second 0-60 times on the interstate. Never had a problem merging, never had a problem keeping up. Even able to pass when needed. OFTEN had to slow down for people driving faster cars more slowly. My mother still thinks I'm too agressive a driver when I'm driving them with her in the car. Only speeding tickets I've ever received were in a 90HP car.

People around here remind me of my friend who bought a Nissan Sentra because it had "230 HP" (it was actually 175 according to Nissan)... who never revved the engine above 4500RPM (peak HP is at 6000). I could drive circles around him in an old VW rabbit as he found out.....