That which killed Indian created Honda

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scan · #1 Post by **scan** » Sun May 07, 2006 10:26 am

I meantioned in an early post learning a few things from the show Modern Marvels special on motorcycles. This was another interesting fact. Indian had done very will with its bike the Chief. They were some of the best known bikes of the time and Indian was a real competitor for Harley. Harely came out with the Sportster, and Indian didn't get it right away that the cheaper and smaller bike would bring an audiance. Once they did catch on, it was too late, and not a very will developed bike. I think it was called the Scout and it was in theory what was need to compete. Instead the Scout along with one other thing seemed to kill Indian. When the US government need a bike they asked for a 500cc bike. Indian complied with that order, where Harley build a 750, which was much more powerful and won the contract.

Back to the Honda point. 10 years after the Scout failure, Honda did the same thing with the 50cc step through design bike. Followed by the Dream and whatever the 305cc bike was called. Honda also turned the bike world on its ear with the 750cc air-cooled inline 4. That changed everything. Honda came at the right time and place though. And also made a fawless affordable product.

#2 Post by **Scoutmedic** » Sun May 07, 2006 10:43 am

I watched that special too. It was really interesting! Of course, this is coming from someone whose wife nicknamed him "nerdboy".

< I Fly > · #3 Post by **< I Fly >** » Sun May 07, 2006 5:10 pm

And today Indian continues to choose obscurity by making hideous overpriced monstrosities.

camthepyro · #4 Post by **camthepyro** » Sun May 07, 2006 6:04 pm

I thought Indian went out of business.... how do they still make bikes?

jstark47 · #5 Post by **jstark47** » Mon May 08, 2006 1:53 am

camthepyro wrote:I thought Indian went out of business.... how do they still make bikes?

The first Indian company went out of business in 1954. There was a company building V-twin "Indian" motorcycles in the USA from 1998 - 2003, which is perhaps what I Fly is referring to. This second Indian company, based in Gilroy California, went belly-up in 2003. The assets and IP were acquired by Stellican Limited, a UK equity firm, who states they are going to revive the brand for a third time. Stellican has kept the Gilroy Indian website up and posts updates periodically. http://www.indianmotorcycle.com/

Confusingly, there is also a completely different motorcycle built by an entrepreneur named Alan Forbes, in Scotland IIRC, which is called Indian in the UK, and Dakota in the USA (since the Gilroy Indian/Stellican company owns that trademark in the USA.) This bike has an inline 4 engine mounted longitudinally, like the old Indian 4's of the 1940's. Forbes of course claims to be the true inheritor of the spirit of the original Indian company. http://www.p2r.se/mc/dakota4/

It's kind of like the mess around the Norton name (let's not get started on that).

Jonathan

jstark47 · #6 Post by **jstark47** » Mon May 08, 2006 3:23 am

More info about various contemporary bikes branded "Indian" (including the Gilroy Indians and the Swedish/Scottish Dakota 4) found here: http://www.indianchiefmotorcycles.com/currentline.htm

scan · #7 Post by **scan** » Mon May 08, 2006 3:30 am

Man! Those inline 4s are amazing. I can believe the made those things. I'd love to jump on one and give the throttle a twist - see what that's like, you know? Not a fan of the big fender, or big cruisers, but it would be fun to try out.

flynrider · #8 Post by **flynrider** » Mon May 08, 2006 12:43 pm

One of the weirder engine configurations I've ridden is the Ariel Square Four. A friend of mine had an early 50s model in a shed with a huge collection of other 50s Brit bikes that he was planning to restore (and never did). The square four was like two parallel twins, one behind the other. I think they were linked by a gearbox. I recall that it had crazy low end torque, nothing like an inline 4.

kfranklin · #9 Post by **kfranklin** » Fri May 12, 2006 10:23 am

Just what do the Indian Scout and the Harley Sportster have to do with one another?

Indian (the REAL Indian Company) went out of business in the early '50s while the Sportster didn't appear until 1957.

I didn't see the program in question but at the time that Indian had died, Harley had not yet made the Sportster so I'd wonder about some of the so-called facts presented on this show.

scan · #10 Post by **scan** » Fri May 12, 2006 5:11 pm

kfranklin wrote:Just what do the Indian Scout and the Harley Sportster have to do with one another?

Indian (the REAL Indian Company) went out of business in the early '50s while the Sportster didn't appear until 1957.

I didn't see the program in question but at the time that Indian had died, Harley had not yet made the Sportster so I'd wonder about some of the so-called facts presented on this show.

Nah, its probably me mixing up details. The Indian Scout was reported to have been the death of Indian to some greater degree. I probably mixed up the Harley detail, but I do think the Honda point is relavent and I think I had that point correct. Thanks for setting me straight on that inaccurate statement.