Match Engine Speed to road speed???

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guitar guru · Mon May 15, 2006 5:33 pm

I still to this day do not understand why they teach new riders to "shift in order to match road speed to engine speed" (or they substitute road speed with wheel speed - it's the same thing). By all logic, this does not make sense. If anything, you are doing exactly the opposite. When you shift up, your rpms DROP, but your wheel speed INCREASES because you are accelerating (most likely). The real reason you are shifting is to use the engine more efficiently. There is no sense riding at 7000 rpms if you aren't accelerating rather quickly, so you upshift in order to use the power of the engine more efficiently and to allow even more room on the tachometer to accelerate, in a manner of speaking. I just don't see how they can teach that principle. If you had never driven a manual transmission in your life, maybe it helps, but I don't see how it can help in the long run.

Sev · #2 Unread post by **Sev** » Mon May 15, 2006 5:49 pm

Basically they mean keep the bike in the powerband. Being in 6th gear and doing 20mph means you're going to accelerate like a dog when you twist the throttle, if you're doing 20mph you should be in first or second.

The speed can also be related to the engine speed ie 20mph in 6th is probably like 1000rpm, but in 1st it's more like 5000rpm. You make better power above 500rpm with a short gearing, like being in first to accelerate. Try accelerating in 6th sometime.

Basically just downshift or upshift as you need to to stay in the powerband. that's all they're saying.

camthepyro · Mon May 15, 2006 6:33 pm

I think they just say that as a way to teach new riders what to do. Yeah, it's not coreect, but it gets them to ride right. Sometimes it's better to tell someone what will teach them, instead of what's right. Like counter-steering. They tell you to push on the foot peg, which doesn't do anything, but it makes them think they are doing something, so they lean. Same thing.

guitar guru · Mon May 15, 2006 8:08 pm

Sevulturus wrote:Basically they mean keep the bike in the powerband. Being in 6th gear and doing 20mph means you're going to accelerate like a dog when you twist the throttle, if you're doing 20mph you should be in first or second.

The speed can also be related to the engine speed ie 20mph in 6th is probably like 1000rpm, but in 1st it's more like 5000rpm. You make better power above 500rpm with a short gearing, like being in first to accelerate. Try accelerating in 6th sometime.

Basically just downshift or upshift as you need to to stay in the powerband. that's all they're saying.

I totally understand all of this, and I did before I took the MSF last year, which might be why I found what they said ridiculous, but what you said in that last sentence is basically what they ought to tell new riders. Sure they should tailor it to people who may never have had a manual transmission before, but essentially they should tell riders to stay in the powerband, not match engine speed to road speed.

camthepyro wrote:They tell you to push on the foot peg

Your MSF told you to push on the footpeg? Bizarre.

BigChickenStrips · Tue May 16, 2006 12:28 am

i find it it be pretty intuitive what gear i need to be in. if i am cruising down a road and the engine is screaming at 9000rpms, maybe i should bump it up a gear to quiet that thing down. same thing when slowing down. if im in 6th gear going 11 miles and hour coming to a stop at 400rpms before i stall it, it might be time to think about downshifting. if you listen to the bike it will tell you what it wants you to do.

that being said, it can be hard on a smaller bike, my ninja 250 needs to be in 6th gear at 8 grand to cruise on the interstate, and there is no more gear to go up so you just live with it.

Sev · #6 Unread post by **Sev** » Tue May 16, 2006 4:52 am

Well... pushing down on the inside footpeg will cause you to lean more through a turn, so that's correct as well, especially at high speeds. It's just another weight transfer trick that can be used in conjunction with counter steering.

As far as "stay in the powerband." Someone who has never ridden before has no idea what the powerband is, so they stupidify it so everyone can understand.

Shrug.

camthepyro · Tue May 16, 2006 6:29 am

Sevulturus
PostPosted: Tue May 16, 2006 8:52 am Post subject:
Well... pushing down on the inside footpeg will cause you to lean more through a turn, so that's correct as well, especially at high speeds. It's just another weight transfer trick that can be used in conjunction with counter steering.

They actual act of pushing on the foot peg isn't going to do anything, they just tell them to do that, because it makes them shift their weight as a side effect.

dieziege · #8 Unread post by **dieziege** » Tue May 16, 2006 6:37 am

I was playing with that yesterday.... holding myself slightly off the seat and lifting my left or right leg to shift the weight (holding myself upright throughout). You can steer the bike that way if you want. It definitely shifts the weight as long as you do not lean your torso the other direction to counter the effect.

Tyrone ORourke · Tue May 16, 2006 6:45 am

Sevulturus wrote:Well... pushing down on the inside footpeg will cause you to lean more through a turn, so that's correct as well, especially at high speeds. It's just another weight transfer trick that can be used in conjunction with counter steering.

As far as "stay in the powerband." Someone who has never ridden before has no idea what the powerband is, so they stupidify it so everyone can understand.

Shrug.

Time for me to fes up. Whats with this whole counter steering lark anyway? I know in theory that if you push the bars to the right, the bike goes left.
Ok theory all in.
But in practice where on earth can you use this type of driving unless taking some seriously fast corners??????

SuperRookie · Tue May 16, 2006 6:52 am

dieziege wrote:I was playing with that yesterday.... holding myself slightly off the seat and lifting my left or right leg to shift the weight (holding myself upright throughout). You can steer the bike that way if you want. It definitely shifts the weight as long as you do not lean your torso the other direction to counter the effect.

I'm sorry...not to get on you or anything...or anyone else for that matter...but I find this ludicrous with regard to 'steering'. Let's say, for f*ck's sake, that your bars are in a "fixed" position...straight. How effective do you think you can turn/steer given that scenario?

Are you saying that you can steer a bike by shifting your weight? Or are you simply making the suggestion that shifting your weight helps while also putting you in a better position for steering inputs? [/b]