Question about 1000cc or very powerful bikes as starters

Message

swatter555 · Thu May 18, 2006 3:58 pm

"I am saying that if you get the 600 because its a lesser bike you are fooling yourself"

Thats just not true. Sure, on a real twisty track a 600 is going to do well. When you compare a liter bikes torque numbers to a 600s torque numbers, that is where the difference is readily apparent. Supersport 600s run at 45 lbs of torque, while the liter bikes push 80. Thats one hell of a difference when you twist the throttle. A liter bike will readily lift the front wheel off the ground in the first three gears. Im sorry, the above statement just isnt true.

Im not saying people should start on a ZX-6R. Im saying that just because you start on something smaller doesnt mean you wont wreck or you are somehow much safer. Just monitor the threads on your favorite message board and you will see just how many people crash these "safer" bikes. As I have been trying to say, other factors are much more important than your bike. Idiots will crash a 250 almost as easily as a 600.

swatter555 · Thu May 18, 2006 4:06 pm

camthepyro wrote:I don't think you're really listening to what we're all saying. It really has nothing to do with what your intentions of not going fast are. It has to do with simple human errors that you can't control yet.

These same errors will likely occur on any bike you ride.

I think everyone is just making too much of this. While I agree that smaller bikes are easier to learn on- starting on a 250 or 500 is not the only option. I just wish people would stop telling every newbie that 600 supersports are death traps- THAT JUST ISNT TRUE.

Its people with poor judgement and little self control that are the accidents waiting to happen.

#93 Unread post by **Kal** » Thu May 18, 2006 4:07 pm

Okays.

You'll note I've not flamed you, and I've no intention of starting now.

I do understand where you are coming from about wanting a Bike that fits your style. The ZX6R and its ilk are incredible bikes.

I need to ask you, do you understand why the ZX6R and its ilk are not considered entry level machines?

camthepyro · Thu May 18, 2006 4:13 pm

swatter555
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2006 8:06 pm Post subject:
camthepyro wrote:
I don't think you're really listening to what we're all saying. It really has nothing to do with what your intentions of not going fast are. It has to do with simple human errors that you can't control yet.

These same errors will likely occur on any bike you ride.

I think everyone is just making too much of this. While I agree that smaller bikes are easier to learn on- starting on a 250 or 500 is not the only option. I just wish people would stop telling every newbie that 600 supersports are death traps- THAT JUST ISNT TRUE.

Its people with poor judgement and little self control that are the accidents waiting to happen.

Yes, they will likely occur on any bike, but the effects aren't as profound on "small" bikes. If I accidently twist the throttle a little too much, I'm not going to go flying off the road.

swatter555 · Thu May 18, 2006 4:14 pm

Kal wrote:Okays.

You'll note I've not flamed you, and I've no intention of starting now.

I do understand where you are coming from about wanting a Bike that fits your style. The ZX6R and its ilk are incredible bikes.

I need to ask you, do you understand why the ZX6R and its ilk are not considered entry level machines?

I didnt intend to make that out as a flame... Ive had a bad day though

Oh, of course! A ZX-6R is one hell of a bike! A new rider will unlikely touch its potential for years. If your not careful, a supersport 600 can get you in lots of trouble while you are learning.

Having said that, if the right person were asking my advice about getting a first bike, I might recommend a ZX-6R if that is the type of bike they wanted. True, the rider would be older with lots of self control... but thats my point.

ofblong · #96 Unread post by **ofblong** » Thu May 18, 2006 4:19 pm

StyleZ wrote:Dunno who said they wanted to look cool on a bike in this thread.... Kno it wasn't me. If anything I make the bike look cool.....

ah and the true ego comes out.

#97 Unread post by **Kal** » Thu May 18, 2006 4:23 pm

swatter555 wrote:"I am saying that if you get the 600 because its a lesser bike you are fooling yourself"

Thats just not true. Sure, on a real twisty track a 600 is going to do well. When you compare a liter bikes torque numbers to a 600s torque numbers, that is where the difference is readily apparent. Supersport 600s run at 45 lbs of torque, while the liter bikes push 80. Thats one hell of a difference when you twist the throttle. A liter bike will readily lift the front wheel off the ground in the first three gears. Im sorry, the above statement just isnt true.

Because a 600cc Supersports wont lift the front wheel in the first three gears? I must be going blind.

ZX10R 79 lbs/ft
ZX6R 49 lbs/ft

Yes there is a 30lbs/ft difference in the numbers but in pratical terms a 600 is just as lethal and unforgiving as the thou.

swatter555 wrote:Im not saying people should start on a ZX-6R. Im saying that just because you start on something smaller doesnt mean you wont wreck or you are somehow much safer. Just monitor the threads on your favorite message board and you will see just how many people crash these "safer" bikes. As I have been trying to say, other factors are much more important than your bike. Idiots will crash a 250 almost as easily as a 600.

In very broad principle I tend to agree with you. The principle being that you can be killed on any bike if you arent riding right.

I'll admit to dropping my 11bhp bike.

It remains that smaller bikes tend to be more forgiving of newbie mistakes and the consequences of those mistakes tend to be less severe.

Supersports are not designed for road use, they are designed for racing on a track and then they receive modifications to make them road legal. They are probably the most unforgiving bikes out there, which is why they arent entry level machines.

StyleZ · #98 Unread post by **StyleZ** » Thu May 18, 2006 4:27 pm

Kal wrote:Okays.

You'll note I've not flamed you, and I've no intention of starting now.

I do understand where you are coming from about wanting a Bike that fits your style. The ZX6R and its ilk are incredible bikes.

I need to ask you, do you understand why the ZX6R and its ilk are not considered entry level machines?

Pretty much yes. People usually consider entry level around 12 - 60HP (many even less then that). The ZX-6R is 113 I believe which is close to double. People already listed the twichy, sensitive throttle, etc.. It's more to it then that but I'm aware.

swatter555 · Thu May 18, 2006 4:32 pm

I dont want to sound like Im recommending the op get a ZX-6R. I was merely chiming in because the thread suited that.

Opinion on this board needs to be more diverse, imo.

camthepyro · Thu May 18, 2006 4:36 pm

I think it's good that this board is virtually unanimous in the opinion that you should stay under 60hp for a first bike. Because if just one or two people say "no, it's ok, get that R6" than that newb will latch on to those one or two people, and completely ignore the other twenty who are saying it's a bad idea.