Question about 1000cc or very powerful bikes as starters

[Kal]

I honestly believe hand on heart that you will be in a lot better position to ride the ZX6R if you do a season or so on a smaller bike and get your 'learning experiences' out of the way before you up the ante by getting yourself a new superbike.

As Zootech has reminded me at several points in the past all we can do is give you the best advice as we see it, at the end of the day it is your decision.

Either way get yourself some good quality gear and ride safe.

[swatter555]

"I am saying that if you get the 600 because its a lesser bike you are fooling yourself"

Thats just not true. Sure, on a real twisty track a 600 is going to do well. When you compare a liter bikes torque numbers to a 600s torque numbers, that is where the difference is readily apparent. Supersport 600s run at 45 lbs of torque, while the liter bikes push 80. Thats one hell of a difference when you twist the throttle. A liter bike will readily lift the front wheel off the ground in the first three gears. Im sorry, the above statement just isnt true.

Because a 600cc Supersports wont lift the front wheel in the first three gears? I must be going blind.

ZX10R 79 lbs/ft
ZX6R 49 lbs/ft

Yes there is a 30lbs/ft difference in the numbers but in pratical terms a 600 is just as lethal and unforgiving as the thou.

Im not saying people should start on a ZX-6R. Im saying that just because you start on something smaller doesnt mean you wont wreck or you are somehow much safer. Just monitor the threads on your favorite message board and you will see just how many people crash these "safer" bikes. As I have been trying to say, other factors are much more important than your bike. Idiots will crash a 250 almost as easily as a 600.

In very broad principle I tend to agree with you. The principle being that you can be killed on any bike if you arent riding right.

I'll admit to dropping my 11bhp bike.

It remains that smaller bikes tend to be more forgiving of newbie mistakes and the consequences of those mistakes tend to be less severe.

Supersports are not designed for road use, they are designed for racing on a track and then they receive modifications to make them road legal. They are probably the most unforgiving bikes out there, which is why they arent entry level machines.

Im still thinking your overstating the similiarity between a 600 and a 1000, not a big deal though.

Supersports and superbikes are not just for race tracks, that I totally disagree about. The 600s are great fun in the twisties, which is what they are made for, even more than the track.

[swatter555]

I think it's good that this board is virtually unanimous in the opinion that you should stay under 60hp for a first bike. Because if just one or two people say "no, it's ok, get that R6" than that newb will latch on to those one or two people, and completely ignore the other twenty who are saying it's a bad idea.

Poop on that. If a newb is searching for any reason to get a superbike, then all he has to do is go to another message board. There are plenty of places that would recommend newbs start on whatever they want.

I find it more important to stress a level headed approach to MCs rather than spouting that if you dont start on a Ninja 250 you will die.

[bok]

i think it has a lot to do with the approach and the person.

random message board person that i have never met says he is the most careful level headed person in the world would still not get a 600+ cc sport bike recommendation out of me...not saying it has to be the ninja but dollar for dollar it's a good place to start...maybe if i knew him personally i would be able to judge that, but all i have to go on is the text on the screen.

all many of us here do is base our opinion on what works for the majority. we didn't see the OP in his MSF course but we did see the initial post which more or less said he is different from every other new rider who wants to start on a 600cc + sport bike, because they are smart/handsome/dextrous/whatever ...and most people who say that are usually just looking for some kind of validation or cheer squad to say "yeah buy it, you will tear it up".

saying you can handle it because you passed the MSF course doesn't make it so. The OP might just be one of the 10-15% or so who will do well enough on a high HP sport bike, but if he messes up and we all blindly said to go for it then what value is our advice?

i'd rather err on the side of caution and say get a smaller bike and use it as a trade in next spring or in the fall when prices are lower than buy a shiny new cool bike to learn on.

[camthepyro]

True, I agree with that, people we go wherever they need to to find the information they want to hear. But and I think for the most part, all of the regular posters on here approach all aspects of motorcycling with a clear level head. The people on this board are all very sensible, logical, and don't seem to be prone to rash decisions, or illogical conclusions. Everyone at TMW pat yourself on the back!

[dieziege]

I'd say that the statement "I'm mature enough to start on a 600/1000cc race rep bike" is prima facie evidence that the person is not mature enough.

The initial desire indicates ignorance (and that's no problem, we all start ignorant). The continued argument indicates a tendency towards impatience (unwillingness to "waste" a year on sv-650, GS500, or other more beginner-friendly bike) and foolish risk-taking (jumping straight into the class of bikes that, according to NHTSA statistics, observation, and common sense, are the most likely to be involved in fatal accidents).

[swatter555]

i'd rather err on the side of caution and say get a smaller bike

I agree! BUT people on this board resort to simplification,distortion, and fear when a newb asks what bike to get. Like I said, too many people have gone beyond being conservative and have become fanatical with one point of view.

I think the more infomation a person gets the better, not the opposite. Just telling someone to get a 250cc bike because a 600cc bike will kill you is not good advice imo.

[Kal]

I didn't say that a 600 will kill, I will happily put my hand up to saying the odds of a **cough-cough** incident rise significantly when talking about a larger bike as a learner.

As many bambi's are proving over and over again here.

[TechTMW]

I agree! BUT people on this board resort to simplification,distortion, and fear when a newb asks what bike to get. Like I said, too many people have gone beyond being conservative and have become fanatical with one point of view.

I think the more infomation a person gets the better, not the opposite. Just telling someone to get a 250cc bike because a 600cc bike will kill you is not good advice imo.

All of the information needed about starting on a 600cc+ sportbike is listed on the top of this forum in a sticky. What is not in there that needs to be added?

The original poster either didn't read the sticky, or ignored it completely.

The sticky DOES mention that a beginner CAN successfully learn on an RR bike, and it DOES NOT say that you will die immediately if starting out on such. It, above all, probably most accurately describes the average opinion here at TMW.

The other sticky (Where I recommend a 50hp bike for a beginner) is MY OPINION. Nowhere there does it say "You will die if you get something bigger."

This topic has been covered numerous times. There are always a few people saying is is smart to start out small. There are usually one or two people who say it's ok to start out big if you are mature. The opinions on this board are very diverse - not all the diversity shows on this post (Or ones like it) because alot of the forum members are simply tired of covering this topic for the millionth time (i.e. some newb thinking he's ok to start out on a 600rr.) Whether they think he can or can't, it's pointless to post - all of this info is covered in the stickies, and members just wind up getting into quarrels.

I guess my whole point is it's not impossible to learn on a big bike. May be harder, more challenging rather but it can be done.

Congratulations. Throughout this whole topic, NOBODY said it was impossible to learn on a bigger bike. Kal's last post really sums it up. It''s not impossible, just significantly riskier. Motorcycling is about managing risk - it (risk management) should be primary in your thinking - especially as a newb.

You can't rationalize safety - either you live it or you don't. Don't try to convince the more experienced that you are perfectly justified in buying a bike that is above your skill set, because you don't have to sell us anything.

If you buy a ZX-6R, you will have stepped into a far riskier situation (Statistically and realistically) than if you has started on a less sensitive bike. It's a fact. Therefore, it follows that your want of a certain bike outweighs your desire to be safe.

It's a childish attitude at the least, especially since the zx-6r isn't going anywhere and will be available a year from now when you've signifigantly developed your skills. You don't think you need to develop your skills? It's your life, go live it.

[StyleZ]

I NEVER said that anybody said it was impossible to learn to learn either...

People on this board make sense and I respect that. At the time though the respect should me mutual. Kai you make a lot of sense and you provided useful into so I'm not directing this to you. Many others though just post black and white info whichs useless (You're wrong, I'm right).

This board definitely is more conservative, but at the same time I like the site. If not I'd be on another forum.[/b]