My M.S.F class was a joke...

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priotan · #1 Unread post by **priotan** » Mon May 22, 2006 2:00 am

...and a complete waste of money.
This is the beginners class.
We start out on a tuesday in a classroom with a reject from the 70's teaching us. A guy who has to continually ask us what page in the workbook we're on, while hurrying to put the videos in so he can get back to his phonecalls.
I took this class because I've never driven a manual transmission before and really needed to know specifically when and why I must shift. This was the single biggest issue for me, shifting. As the class rolls on I realize we're not talking about the clutch or shifting at all! So, when he mentions he needs another smoke break I decide to join him and ask if we'll be studying the clutch and shifting at all. He nods. We don't.

Saturday and sunday...
We start out in the soaking rain and do the normal riding around in first gear for a bit, then it's suggested if we feel comfortable, move up to second. Again, no explanation why or when. Remember, I know none of this stuff!
They suggest moving up to third...

I ask twice for some help with the shifting issues. I can shift without a problem. I can find neutral without a problem. What I need to know is...WHY AND WHEN TO SHIFT! I'm assured this will be covered.

70's guy stands in the center of the course smoking and not talking to anyone.
The other "instructor" notices someone wearing an armored Honda jacket, which leads to stories of youth which leads to a 20 minute discussion on precisely where the air ambulance flies to in the event of massive head trauma, which leads to favorite accident stories, which leads to stories about his friend the physicist. All the while we're standing around attempting to appear interested.
Still waiting for that shifting info to come my way...
"Other" instructor wanders off to the far parking lot to visit with a friend on a Harley who has just shown up, leaving us with 70's guy who's still smoking and not talking.
We ride in circles some more. I get yelled at for being in second. I can't explain why I'm in second and they can't explain why I shouldn't be.
We're given demos. I notice "other" instructor shifting and clutching as he's doing this. I ask if he can explain it to me. Sure, he says, I'll give you a demonstration. He rides off to visit another friend who's just shown up.
70's guy stands in the center of the course maintaining his cool smoking composure as well as his silence.
I stop asking for clutch and shifting help.

Sunday, we do a figure 8 in the box then ride straight to the other end of the parking lot and stop, putting our left foot down. This is our test. We all pass. We are now officially licensed motorcyclists.

So, here I am, $215.00 later, wondering just when I'm going to learn why and when I need to shift...

I took this class because it was raved about whenever I read about it on the web. "Awesome", "best thing ever", "you'll never regret it"!

jstark47 · #2 Unread post by **jstark47** » Mon May 22, 2006 2:09 am

priotan wrote:So, here I am, $215.00 later, wondering just when I'm going to learn why and when I need to shift...

Sorry your MSF didn't work out for you.

I'm not trying to make fun of you or trivialize your concern, but here's shifting in a nutshell:
1) If the engine is screaming and straining, shift up.
2) If the engine is "lugging" (i.e. when you try to accelerate it chugs and bogs down), shift down.

That's all.

The nuances are particular to the kind of bike you'll ride and the kind of riding you'll do. You'll work out the nuances with practice.

Good luck,
Jonathan

Gummiente · #3 Unread post by **Gummiente** » Mon May 22, 2006 2:24 am

You really should lodge a complaint with the MSF. If what you've said is all true, then these instructors are obviously not teaching what they should and this will obviously do more damage than good to you or any other motorcyclist who takes their course. This kind of behaviour is NOT sanctioned by the MSF, I can assure you.

secgeek · #4 Unread post by **secgeek** » Mon May 22, 2006 3:27 am

jstark47 wrote: Sorry your MSF didn't work out for you.

I'm not trying to make fun of you or trivialize your concern, but here's shifting in a nutshell:
1) If the engine is screaming and straining, shift up.
2) If the engine is "lugging" (i.e. when you try to accelerate it chugs and bogs down), shift down.

That's all.

The nuances are particular to the kind of bike you'll ride and the kind of riding you'll do. You'll work out the nuances with practice.

Good luck,
Jonathan

Agreed... I used to drive 5 speed all the time without a tach when I was younger... You will eventually feel it... But in the meantime when you start feeling that the throttle isn't responsive shift up in the same token if you feel you are not accelerating as you should or need to slow down shift down...

camthepyro · Mon May 22, 2006 3:55 am

secgeek
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 7:27 am Post subject: Re: My M.S.F class was a joke...
jstark47 wrote:

Sorry your MSF didn't work out for you.

I'm not trying to make fun of you or trivialize your concern, but here's shifting in a nutshell:
1) If the engine is screaming and straining, shift up.
2) If the engine is "lugging" (i.e. when you try to accelerate it chugs and bogs down), shift down.

That's all.

The nuances are particular to the kind of bike you'll ride and the kind of riding you'll do. You'll work out the nuances with practice.

Good luck,
Jonathan

Agreed... I used to drive 5 speed all the time without a tach when I was younger... You will eventually feel it... But in the meantime when you start feeling that the throttle isn't responsive shift up in the same token if you feel you are not accelerating as you should or need to slow down shift down...

Yep, the tach on my bike didn't work when I started riding it, I just shifted when it sounded like I needed to.

As far as the class, I agree with Gummiente, most MSF classes are not like that, sounds like you got bad instructors, try and file a complaint with them, and you may be able to get a refund.

dieziege · #6 Unread post by **dieziege** » Mon May 22, 2006 4:02 am

I'm a bit surprised... the MSF "book" I got at the class portion goes through the whole "matching road speed" thing (in other words, selecting the proper gear) and I'm pretty sure there was a video segment that touched on the idea.

Maybe they just couldn't understand why you were concerned... after all, you are just doing what your automatic transmission does... if a machine can do it, so can you.

Your experience, by the way, is one of the best reasons I can think of for choosing a course schedule that gives you at least a few days between each session. I had a lot of unanswered questions myself but since there was a week between my two range days, I was able to ask questions, read, and otherwise get myself up to speed on the subjects they didn't cover well in the class.

secgeek · #7 Unread post by **secgeek** » Mon May 22, 2006 4:32 am

camthepyro wrote:
secgeek
PostPosted: Mon May 22, 2006 7:27 am Post subject: Re: My M.S.F class was a joke...
jstark47 wrote:

Sorry your MSF didn't work out for you.

I'm not trying to make fun of you or trivialize your concern, but here's shifting in a nutshell:
1) If the engine is screaming and straining, shift up.
2) If the engine is "lugging" (i.e. when you try to accelerate it chugs and bogs down), shift down.

That's all.

The nuances are particular to the kind of bike you'll ride and the kind of riding you'll do. You'll work out the nuances with practice.

Good luck,
Jonathan

Agreed... I used to drive 5 speed all the time without a tach when I was younger... You will eventually feel it... But in the meantime when you start feeling that the throttle isn't responsive shift up in the same token if you feel you are not accelerating as you should or need to slow down shift down...
Yep, the tach on my bike didn't work when I started riding it, I just shifted when it sounded like I needed to.

As far as the class, I agree with Gummiente, most MSF classes are not like that, sounds like you got bad instructors, try and file a complaint with them, and you may be able to get a refund.

My new bike doesnt even have a tach

Kim · #8 Unread post by **Kim** » Mon May 22, 2006 4:52 am

I agree about reporting the instructors. Send a copy of what you just posted here. That's a lot of money to waste.

BigChickenStrips · Mon May 22, 2006 6:13 am

at least in some states you get an insurance discount for taking the class. in TN its 10% by law.

Mon May 22, 2006 7:32 am

Gummiente wrote:You really should lodge a complaint with the MSF. If what you've said is all true, then these instructors are obviously not teaching what they should and this will obviously do more damage than good to you or any other motorcyclist who takes their course. This kind of behaviour is NOT sanctioned by the MSF, I can assure you.

+1.

That is, IF this really was a Motorcycle Safety Foundation "Basic Rider's Course." Not all training courses are the same.

Where did you take this? Your description does NOT sound anything like the curriculum used here in MD. . . my hubby just finished his training to become a Rider Coach, so I do have a clue.

P