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Personally I think the world would be a better place if people were allowed to get permits to carry firearms. The only reason a lot of criminals are in power and these school shootings happen is because the general public is not armed to defend themselves.

I know lots of people feel that if we arm EVERYONE that it will be like the old west with shootouts everyday. But if that was true I think there would be at least one shootout at every gun show right?

Brackstone wrote:Personally I think the world would be a better place if people were allowed to get permits to carry firearms. The only reason a lot of criminals are in power and these school shootings happen is because the general public is not armed to defend themselves.

I know lots of people feel that if we arm EVERYONE that it will be like the old west with shootouts everyday. But if that was true I think there would be at least one shootout at every gun show right?

Did New Jersey ban firearms or something? Because at least here in Massachusetts (not Boston, though), you can have a license to carry firearms.

Even if guns were banned, the government and criminals would still have them. And guess what? That would mean that the public (us) are helpless and at the will of the government. Sorry. They should be afraid of us and our shotguns and tax dollars. Not the other way around.

Kibagari wrote:

Brackstone wrote:Personally I think the world would be a better place if people were allowed to get permits to carry firearms. The only reason a lot of criminals are in power and these school shootings happen is because the general public is not armed to defend themselves.

I know lots of people feel that if we arm EVERYONE that it will be like the old west with shootouts everyday. But if that was true I think there would be at least one shootout at every gun show right?

Did New Jersey ban firearms or something? Because at least here in Massachusetts (not Boston, though), you can have a license to carry firearms.

Even if guns were banned, the government and criminals would still have them. And guess what? That would mean that the public (us) are helpless and at the will of the government. Sorry. They should be afraid of us and our shotguns and tax dollars. Not the other way around.

You can own a firearm in New Jersey but you can't take it anywhere with you. It has to sit in your house. And if you put it in your car it has to be in the trunk, locked in a separate case and not loaded.

That's my point about criminals though they are going to carry the guns. I think criminals and most people would think twice about getting into altercations because they don't know if anyone else is armed or perhaps a good citizen on the street either.

I can see where you're coming from, but not everyone is always in the state to make a sensible decision at all times (for example, drugs do change perception quite a bit)

Likewise if everyone is carrying, why wait to find out if they're armed or not, when you can just shoot them from the off.

Just trying to provoke thought not a flame war.

In 40 states it is possible to get a concealed weapons permit and it has not turned into the OK corral.in fact crime is the highest in places that citizens are not permitted to get a CCW permit.new jersey is one of them.
people I know that live in the free states aren't looking for a gun fight,they are just prepared to defend themselves.
there hasn't been a single case of a CCW holder commiting a crime with their concealed weapon.

There are only 7 states in the US that does not allow some form of open carry. They include Oklahoma, Arkansas, Florida, New York, South Carolina, D.C. and Texas.

There are 11 OC states - known as Gold Star states. They allow open carry without a permit. So, if you have no permit, you must carry OC.

There are 14 states that are OC with a permit.

There are 17 states that do not prohibit OC.

And there are 2 states where OC is allowed in non-incorporated areas.

There are only 2 states where the right to to carry is denied completely. That is Wisconsin and Illinois. Illinois is one of the two states which allowed OC in non-incorporated areas.


As Oxbow said, most of the states allow CC, with permit. And permits are issued through an application (which include background checks) and depending on the state, requires passing a practical and class exam by certified instructors (normally taught by state LEOs/DPS/Rangers).

Considering the fact that 48 of the 50 states allow some form of carry, given the results thus far that the streets aren't running red with blood due to licensed and lawful owners 'loosing it', I'd say that in itself is a very compelling argument that the presence of firearms in public is not a complete disaster.


Law-abiding citizens who carry and criminals with guns are two different things. Good people have guns too.


Can anyone tell me, when there are firearm competitions, such as IDPA, USPSA, IPSC, when many many people bring guns out in the open, and shoot off rounds very quickly with multiple reloads, how come there are not bodies lining the streets?

And if there's this "high powered assault rifle", where in the world can I find a "low powered rifle" instead?


Do you know what a barrel shroud is? "It's a shoulder thingy that goes up"

thanks for the improved info Shorts.
In NJ you can apply, I've been told that it can run you a few thousand dollars to do it,because you need an attorney and you have to stand before a superior court judge and explain why you need to carry.
the judge will deny it 99.9% of the time.
a friend of mine who is a decorated Marine and 25 year veteran of the NYC police dept is the only person I know to get a CCW permit in NJand the judge even dictates the type of handgun,the caliber,and the type of ammo you can have in it.in this case it was a 5 shot S&W in 38 spcl,and the only round he could have in it is non +p 158 gr lead round nose.
When he tried to explain that that round was the least effective round for that caliber and was prone to richochet, the judge told him she didn't want to hear it.
New Jersey, the last communist strong hold in the western hemisphere

Some NE states are very difficult to get a permit. Of course, that is the lawmakers intent, make the process as difficult and expensive as possible so that a potential applicant will just give up altogether.

I recently listened to a Podcast interview of a man in Delaware applying for his license. The process was contorted to say the least. But he still got it done.


The public needs a reeducation to flush out the junk Hollywood and the media have pooped out for ratings.


What is completely overlooked by lawmakers is that laws only work if the citizen makes voluntary efforts to follow them.

My cousin and her husband have a farm in north central Pennsylvania. People up there leave their houses unlocked and some even leave their keys in their vehicles. There's no local police either, and the state police are miles away, and might come in a few hours when called...... maybe.

So is this some kind of nirvana? Nah, hardly! Everybody up there has guns and dogs. Lots of guns, and big dogs. You'd have to be NUTS to break and enter up there - folks would shoot first and ask questions later. It's just part of the culture.

Washington State has been "Shall-Issue" since 1961, the first to do so, with only a background check, fingerprint card, and $60 fee required. If you don't have felonies or DV (might be a couple other kinds of violent crime as well) on your record the state is REQUIRED to issue you a permit within 60 days, IIRC. No class or test necessary.

Funny that our streets have not been running running red with blood since the early 60's, what with all the concealed handguns we have on the street.

Link: Benton County CPL page.