Total Motorcycle Community Forums

Fear, in moderate doses, is healthy; it's what keeps us from committing irrational acts of stupidity. I've always told myself that the day I have absolutely no fear that something bad could happen to me on a bike, that's when I'll quit riding. Bad thing number one: getting rearended at a traffic light by a Ford Pinto. Bad thing number two: taking a ditch at 50 to avoid an oncoming driver passing in a no passing zone. Bad thing number three: coming over a hill in a rural area, and discovering that the pavement ended and gave way to freshly grated gravel (my fault; know the road). Bad thing number four: flipping a scooter at 40mph after hitting a well concealed utility cut in the middle of the street (again my fault due to trying to get through a yellow light, and not paying close enough attention to what was half a block away). Those are the only bad things that have happened to me in over 20 years; but, they all hurt real bad.
Forgot; another bad thing: getting caught out in a hail storm in the middle of Kansas with no trees or overpasses, and no helmet (back years ago when I was younger and stupider), but that one was more sucky than real bad.

There is a fundamental problem with motorcycles. I've noticed it with everyone I talk with about motorcycles at work, except the people who have ridden motorcycles.

They all have their stories about idiots on motorcycles, in particular motorcyclist that is zipping through traffic and then the next thing they notice is that particular motorcyclist flying 50 feet in the air.

I've seen 1 motorcycle accident and the aftermath of another. One was a blocked left turner that hit two girls riding their motorcycles and the other was a zip head driving too fast on a road with traffic lights.

Fortunately, no-one in any of those accidents died. But I've seen many more car accidents, and driven by the remains of cars that were 1/4 of the size of the original car size.

Combine this with the fact that when we ride normally, they don't see us - and you get this: The only motorcyclists the regular drivers remember are the ones that were involved in accidents, were riding like idiots or their buddy they knew years ago that was involved in a terrible motorcycle accident.

The truth is that motorcycling is more dangerous than driving a car. Understanding how much more dangerous is something that people who drive cars don't seem to understand.

If I were you - I'd look up the stats on the US NHTSA statistics. Especially look up two specific facts: 1) The number of single vehicle accidents by motorcyclists 2) The percentage of those accidents that were drunk riders.

You'll find that in the past ten years - single vehicle motorcycle accidents - have hovered around 50%. About 50% of those involve drunk riders.

There is this myth that most motorcycle accidents are caused by cars, but the NHTSA statistics indicate that is true - but only in about 30% of accidents.

Drivers in general want to portray motorcycling as suicidal. But in fact, the percentages of riders killed in accidents for both are driven to the ten thousands of a percent and beyond.

Let's take some fictional numbers to make this a clear point:

.000301% drivers of cars are killed in automobile accidents.
.006600% of motorcycle riders are killed on motorcycles.

The press will report this as say 20 times more people are killed in motorcycle accidents than people killed in automobile accidents. But realistically the additional risk is the delta - the change between the two numbers. So, this number that circulates now "Motorcyclists are 37 times more likely to die in an accident" is questionable. It is factual, but I don't think it really conveys an increased risk on a par of the marketing it generates for fear.

The way people talk at my job - they think 50% of motorcyclists die every year.

Anyway, this is way too long a post and I doubt if anyone is going to read it all the way through, so I'll get off my soap box. Research the numbers and determine what the additional risk is in riding a motorcycle - and if that is a level of risk that you can accept.

Then get over the actual fear of riding one at highway speeds.

RhadamYgg

Wow! I cannot thank you all enough for the great advice you've given me. Some very good points have been made, and I'm going to consider all of them. Just to respond to a few things...

1. I've already upped my life insurance policy (did that years ago). It's enough to pay for the house, any outstanding debt we have, and allow my wife to save and collect interest in years to come (or to put into a savings fund for our daughter's college).

2. I'm going for the permit first, then the MSF course. I'm looking at bikes right now, and I might go sit on some and visit some private owners, but not planning on getting one till after the course. That way, if for some reason I end up not liking it, I'm only out the permit and the safety course. And that would be worth the effort and money.

3. I've been reading a lot about proper gear, and plan to wear everything. I'll look like an astronaut on wheels! lol.

I guess it's kind of like flying in an airplane? No one thinks about the serious danger of flying until a jet crashes. Then we have a panic of flying. I personally don't "fear" the bike. I do have a bit of a fear of what I'm capable of doing on a bike, and I definitely fear other drivers (I do that driving a car now), but, as some of you have mentioned, a little fear is good for us. Keeps us alert.

Thanks again!

David Hough's new edition of 'Proficient Motorcycling' - the first chapter talks in real-world terms about risk, fatalities and motorcycling. It also talks about this subject specifically - and the fact about what other people think about motorcycling.

He talks about a whole bunch of other things as well. I'm actually re-reading the book again.

The book 'Motorcycling Excellence' from the MSF is very good as well, but after reading the Hough book, I find that much of the 'Motorcycling Excellence' book is candy coated.

After all, the MSF is owned/sponsored by motorcycle manufacturers and they want you to be in a state of mind for purchasing a bike - and many more bikes in the future.

The Hough book is about survival on the streets - and with your skill level.

RhadamYgg

It's simplistic to think motorcycling is inherently dangerous; it's an activity that has inherent risks that can be mitigated or at least minimized, by following advice that has been mentioned by others on this thread (re training, gear, and defensive riding).

I'd also like to think vehicle safety is far more dependent on the vehicle operator than on a vehicle’s classification. A safe driver isn’t one who encases himself in the largest SUV with the most airbags, but the one who drives the most defensively. And although I haven't found any statistics to back it up, IMHO motorcycles have several advantages over cars when it comes to being situationally aware and defensive on the road. A motorcycle has far fewer blind spots. A motorcyclist’s eye level is usually higher than that of a car driver. A bike’s narrowness gives you more flexibility to position yourself within a lane, again helping the you to see and be seen more. And a rider generally has fewer distractions than a driver.

Of course, it's still a PITA to try explain and convince well-intentioned friends and loved ones

road foreman wrote:Now that I'm seriously considering getting a bike (even just a smaller 250-500 cc first bike), I've been faced with a lot of attitudinal opposition. Granted, everyone is looking out for my safety, especially my wife, parents, etc. But I'm not going into biking for the thrill, speed, racing, etc. I want a good bike I can enjoy, take care of, and ride so that I can save gas costs...

Surely someone else has had the same struggle that I'm going through? If you have, please help me out. How do you convince people that what you're doing is not just a careless "thrill ride"? Especially with the stats against riding a bike not in our favor!

Thanks again for the help. Any is appreciated.

Yup. Dealt with the same thing. One thing that helped get folks off my back was to refuse to entertain that they might be right... that I was headed for certain death and/or dismemberment. WHen folks wanted to tell me their 'I know a friend of a friend who did such and such and died on a motorcycle.' I'd respond, "Chances are that person was riding beyond their abilities, or on too much bike, or they were riding impaired or not accounting for conditions." Never got an arguement with that.

If you aren't certain that you're doing all you can to do this safely, then there's no hope of convincing anyone else you're not gonna die.

Have a plan: 1. Take the MSF (or similar) riding course. 2. Get your license. 3. Start with a smaller (used) machine. 4. Budget and buy FULL motorcycle gear, and wear it every single ride. When folks start with you just repeat the plan. Eventually they'll quit trying to get a rise out of you.

P

My biggest argument to the ol " I know someone though someone, that got hurt/killed on a bike" is "and how many do you know that got hurt/killed by cars?" I'm a fire fighter, run a motorcycle forum and am almost always talking with other motorcyclists and I can say personally I have seen/heard 2 car accidents resulting in injury/death for every 1 on a bike. Papers, radios and the news will almost always play a piece about a bike over a car because of public intrest, but the reality is just as many cars get into accidents as bikes if not more. Yeah its dangerous to ride a bike, same as its dangerous to drive a car. Just in the local area I can remember tons of car accidents resulting in deaths, and only about 2 bike accidents. I was lucky growing up, my parents got me a bike when I was 3 and I have owned one ever since. I respect people that say they don't want to ride a bike cause its dangerous, but to me if you really want to push the issue of "bikes are dangerous because....." then I have to say that even taking a shower is dangerous cause lots of people die every year from falling and breaking their necks. Am I going to stop showering out of fear of dieing? No, am I going to stop riding a bike out of fear of dieing? No more then I would stop driving a car for the same reason...

darksoul wrote:My biggest argument to the ol " I know someone though someone, that got hurt/killed on a bike" is "and how many do you know that got hurt/killed by cars?" I'm a fire fighter, run a motorcycle forum and am almost always talking with other motorcyclists and I can say personally I have seen/heard 2 car accidents resulting in injury/death for every 1 on a bike. Papers, radios and the news will almost always play a piece about a bike over a car because of public intrest, but the reality is just as many cars get into accidents as bikes if not more. Yeah its dangerous to ride a bike, same as its dangerous to drive a car. Just in the local area I can remember tons of car accidents resulting in deaths, and only about 2 bike accidents. I was lucky growing up, my parents got me a bike when I was 3 and I have owned one ever since. I respect people that say they don't want to ride a bike cause its dangerous, but to me if you really want to push the issue of "bikes are dangerous because....." then I have to say that even taking a shower is dangerous cause lots of people die every year from falling and breaking their necks. Am I going to stop showering out of fear of dieing? No, am I going to stop riding a bike out of fear of dieing? No more then I would stop driving a car for the same reason...

Typically, 34,000 or more people die a year in automobile accidents.
Each year - less than 8,000 people die on motorcycles. Typically, much less than that.
For as long as we have been tracking fatalities, the only year that more motorcyclists died than pedestrians was 2006.

But, you have to correct for things like number of motorcyclists to number of car drives, etc.

Proportionally, there are many more motorcycles on the road now than in most times in the past. So, while the amount of motorcyclists fatalities are rising, they are not at 1981 levels.

RhadamYgg

I havn't started riding yet but, most of the accidents I hear about are on the motorcycle driver being a idiot. I live in South Carolina where you don't have to wear a helmet. When your going 90-120 down the highway with no shirt on, shorts, boat shoes and no helmet your asking for trouble. I hate how people try to scare you from not getting a motorcycle, thats all I have heard from people around me lately. I know this guy that got hurt...bla bla bla bla bla... If you don't wear a helmet or you do stupid sh@t on a bike of course something is going to happen.


My wife and I are planning on taking the motorcycle course, and we are both going to get 250cc to start out on. Practice Practice alot and probably ride together for the first year or two. I assume you can see two bikes better then one. We also only plan to drive around town and back roads where less traffic is. I also plan on wearing a full face helmet and all the proper gear.

There is always a risk and in my opinion reduce it as must as possible. Saftey first then Fun.

slim

sorry for venting lol

Reduce your risk with the following (From "Proficient Motorcycling", David Hough):
-wear a helmet
-don't drink and ride: If you drink at night, don't ride in the morning. Avoid times and locations where drunk drivers frequent
-don't ride at night

Also:
-don't speed
-ride like you're invisible