Oh grief! If were a game fish I would be strung out on so many hooks, I wouldn't last two minutes in the water.ronboskz650sr wrote: The point is, my experience has convinced me beyond any doubt, that man is inherently evil, just like the bible says.
IMHO, this is a very dangerous point of view. It contributes powerfully to the destruction of human happiness, and is one of the reasons I am not a Christian.
The fact is, some people see human nature as fundamentally 'good', others see it as fundamentally 'evil'. We all live in the same world; we all see the same things, so the difference is just one of attitude and perception. Which way you tend will depend on whether you think this old world is a pretty good thing and worth making the best of or whether you think it is pretty yuk and not worth the trouble.
Since my wife contracted an incurable and truly horrible terminal illness just over a year ago and is now probably living out the last few months of her life, my local community has shown what can lie in the human heart. So many people, some of whom we hardly knew a year ago, have put aside their own comforts, time and interests and offered us an untold amount of practical and emotional help and support. I'm overwhelmed at the amount of kindness they have shown. In spite of all the pressures our isolating society puts on us, these, our neighbours have freely and spontaneously offered us their time and emotional resources.
And this makes me want to shout very loudly and angrily in opposition to Ron’s comment. Ron, I want to say to you, if this dreary message, is the best your Christianity can do, then I don’t need it. There is a better world without it.
I forget who made the point, but there is no direct way to observe human nature. All we can see is the way human beings behave under a certain set of social circumstances. What always amazes me, is that despite the fact that our world is constructed to set each individual in economic competition with every other individual, and puts pressure on us to focus narrowly our own interests and neglect those of others, there is just SO MUCH kindness and compassion and love out there.
Of course, our aggressively competitive world results in some pretty bad behaviour too. And I see that in the same way that Ron does. But what you see depends on how you view the word. To assume that someone who acts badly towards you must be fundamentally ‘evil’ in themselves, or to think that because mankind is capable of really horrible actions it must be fundamentally ‘evil’ in its nature, as Ron does, is false reasoning. Most of us are mixed. We have good attitudes and bad, We exhibit good behaviour and bad. When life is treating us badly we are liable to kick the cat or take it out on someone. Growing up in a competitive social world that will not look after us if we fail to provide for ourselves and family, we develop self-centred attitudes which we believe will preserve us. We are a mess and we struggle.
But in my experience, what makes most of us act badly, in one way or another, is fear, not some abstract theological notion of ‘evil’, but fear. All it takes is a little bit of self-observation to realise that. Take the trouble to look into someone’s eyes and you will see the fear lurking there. It takes many forms but it is always there. Usually we choose not to look because, if we did, we would be forced to acknowledge the huge amount of fear we hold inside ourselves.
If you get caught up in this self-centred notion of man’s ‘evil’ nature then you will not strive for a better world. It will make you see people in negative ways and fuel all the negative perceptions that we already have. Taking the opposite attitude, that mankind is sociable and capable of great acts of kindness creates a very different view of human beings, a positive one that makes you want to strive for something better. It is a real antidote to the dreary Christian notion of Sin and Guilt, and to the self-righteous and self-centred navel-gazing notion that you are one of the saved or the elect. That Ron, is why I have no time for Christianity, and your posts merely confirm for me what other experince suggests.
Over the years I’ve had it up to the neck with doctrinal bigotry, which tells me that unless I believe in this or that, I’m damned. Acceptance of such a belief is just one more expression of the fear that inhabits us all and a reflection of the madcap way we have of organising our affairs.
Christian sects and Christians are all different, of course, but in my experience they have no monopoly on truth, goodness, kindness or any other virtue. Some of the people who have been helping us are from the local C of E and Catholic churches, some are Sikhs, one is a Bhuddist, most are of no faith whatsoever. The idea that it is necessary to force people to act well by frightening the living daylights out of them with notions of hell and judgement is in my experiency a myth - whose sole role is merely to allow Christians to justify their social existence.
Blimey !
Happy Christmas/solstice/holiday/’whatever you like’ everyone
I am wrapped up in my beliefs, though. I'll admit it. 
I believe the whole bible is the written word of God, and try to do what's in it.
