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"Needless to say, she had to drop out of the class 20 minutes into the range. An instructer yelling "NEUTRAL! NEUTRAL! NEUTRAL!" in your face when you don't even know where to find neutral is not really helpful."

Sorry that you had such a bad instructor What an introduction to the motorcycling community this guy makes. I am glad that you were able to get the gf some good instruction. Wish my wife would get out there with me.

tropicalhotdog wrote:Needless to say, she had to drop out of the class 20 minutes into the range. An instructer yelling "NEUTRAL! NEUTRAL! NEUTRAL!" in your face when you don't even know where to find neutral is not really helpful.

storysunfolding wrote:That's the sign of a bad instructor. I've had many people show up that have never driven a manual transmission or been on a bike before. It is truely a beginner class or that first exercise with group rocking could only have been designed to "pee" people off.

Hell, some of the bikes are hard as hell to get into nuetral so to give a student more riding time I tell them a few tricks, and if they are still having trouble I do it for them. The point of the exercise isn't to find nuetral so it doesn't take anything away from the lesson and they are all able to do it on their own by the end of the weekend anyway.

exactly what storysunfolding said...

tropicalhotdog, i hope you mentioned something about it on your evaluation or that your wife did... it would be a shame for the instructor to keep interacting with new motorcyclists this way...

Since I knew absolutely nothing about m-cycling it was definitely worth my $400 Cdn and a weekend. I like jstark47's analogy of the foundation.

the course took me from 0 to .01
i hadn't been on a bike in 30 years and they taught me the basiscs in 3 days.
i ride almost every weekend now practicing my skills.
great way for me to learn to ride and i think you'll enjoy it too.

tropicalhotdog wrote:An instructer yelling "NEUTRAL! NEUTRAL! NEUTRAL!" in your face when you don't even know where to find neutral is not really helpful.

I had the same experience - a year ago I took the MSF class to get my "M" endorsement because I had a 150 cc scooter that required it. The instructor did nothing but yell at me - I'm an athlete, I'm used to being coached - but this guy freaked me out. Things like, "don't drop my f@#king bike," and other nonsense. In the classroom, he bragged about the wrecks he had been in, and was proud of the way he "showed up" other riders on the road. By the end of the weekend, I was a wreck - I passed (with the lowest score possible and he made sure the rest of the riders in my class knew that piece of information), but my only thought when he handed me my card was "thank god I never have to get on another motorcycle."

Fast forward one year and I'm getting the itch to ride longer distances - to Santa Fe, to Moab, to Durango - that my scooter just can't handle. I finally decide to give another company a try at teaching me to ride a motorcycle - and it was night and day. Part of it, I'm sure, is that having been on 2 wheels for a year and knowing what it feels like to lean in a turn and such made me much more comfortable on the motorcycle so that I could actually "feel" the clutch and the throttle and shifting, instead of trying to listen to an instructor screaming at me - but from an objective point of view, the instructor was totally different. No screaming, no derision, just helpful advice and clear examples. Plus, he actually had an appropriate sense of humor which didn't include laughing about the sport bike rider he caused to lose it in a curve on a mountain pass because the sport bike rider dared to try and keep up with him...

So, if you are in Denver, I have some suggestions about which company to avoid and which company to hand over $250 of your hard-earned dollars to in order to safely and (hopefully) happily learn to ride with:

My bad experience: May of 2006 with abate at Jeffco Stadium
My good experience: June of 2007 with t3rg

mtn_horn- I'm sorry you had to go through that.

This is yet another example of a bad instructor. They shouldn't tell you what not to do, they should tell you what to do.

"Don't drop my fing bike" Should have been something like the following:
-"head and eyes up"
-"straighten your handlebars when you come to a stop"
-"Put down your side stand before dismounting the bike"

I scream at students all the time, but only because they are wearing helmets and the bikes are running, never out of anger. I also make sure to tell them two things
1.) It may seem like I'm yelling at you, but I'm trying to be heard through your helmet and over the sound of the bikes.
2.) When you hear our voices don't turn and look at me, we're hear to give you suggestions and tips, not distract you.

Any instructor that wants to talk about how they are the meanest baddest street racer needs to find another job. The guys that show off scars really upset me. "We're hear to help you on your first steps to becoming a safe and responsible rider... but check out the scars from all my high sides"

storysunfolding wrote:I scream at students all the time, but only because they are wearing helmets and the bikes are running, never out of anger. I also make sure to tell them two things
1.) It may seem like I'm yelling at you, but I'm trying to be heard through your helmet and over the sound of the bikes.
2.) When you hear our voices don't turn and look at me, we're hear to give you suggestions and tips, not distract you.

Any instructor that wants to talk about how they are the meanest baddest street racer needs to find another job. The guys that show off scars really upset me. "We're hear to help you on your first steps to becoming a safe and responsible rider... but check out the scars from all my high sides"

In my definition, yelling is different than screaming. I've been a coach for my entire life - when you're out on the softball field and the wind is whipping around and you need to get your shortstop's attention, you yell. When you lose control of your emotions (and the situation), you scream.

I'm used to being yelled at - so I'm betting that you're a "yeller" and not a "screamer."

And yeah, I found it really weird (and unnerving) that the instructor was so proud of his stupidity while on two wheels. He even bragged about how drunk he got at Sturgis one year - while riding, of course.

The value of good instructors/coaches is immeasurable. Thank you for what you do. Now that I've had a good instructor, I see all the fun I would have missed out on without it.

That is unnerving. This is not the norm for instructors. As a member of ABATE of Colorado I find his behavior very counter productive to our goals. Did you report this to Abate, your input may help this from happening again.

ABATE of Colorado
4725 Paris St., Suite #250
Denver, Colorado 80239
Office: 303-789-3264 Fax: 303-789-2915

http://www.abateofcolo.org/

Once in a blue moon I actually do something right.

I just got done with my MSF course this weekend and found the experience to be one of the best possible. I took it in Rutland, Vermont and it only cost me $135. The instructors were spot-on great and they had me doing things on a bike (safely, of course) that I never thought I would ever be able to do.

I left the course with a big--but tired--grin on my face. Even my car/truck driving skills improved, if for no other reason than to make me more aware of those around me.

To my instructors at the Rutland Vermont course, "Susie" and "Craig" (last names omited): You guys ROCK. I hope you read this one day (or at least your bosses) as I say, THANK YOU.

Okay, a long-winded way to say that the course is great, but, I'm still stoked about it.

Jeremy102579 wrote:like i said, i only have time to go out with a licensed rider on the weekends.........i am planning on once i get my license in august, to go out by myself that day and cruise wherever i wish.

is that smart to do once i get my own license?

\

Maybe I'm a fool but the first week I had my bike, I rode it close to 600 miles in ONE DAY on I-76 West in Pa. So far, I've been to New York, New Jersey, almost Ohio, I went to Philly monday and who knows where I might go over the week of the 4th and I've had it less than 2 months. My best suggestion is GET A MAP and take a good look at your state. I love adventures and I love just getting out and going somewhere. Some people get scared when they first get a bike, but maybe to some detriment, riding didn't scare me at all. I felt right at home on the rode even if I didn't have tons of skill, I felt comfortable even as a newbie. Now I don't mean that I felt like doing something stupid, just at ease. Depending on how confident you feel I would suggest sticking somewhere familiar. I'm not afraid to get lost as long as I have lots of time and decent weather, though I've been in heavy rain on the interstate TWICE (grr) without even knowing it was coming. Check the weather before you leave lol.