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Texfire wrote:At the risk of hijacking this thread back on track, what's the difference between engine braking prior to stopping or going into a turn and blipping? I'm not rolling on the throttle, just feathering the clutch on the way out. Is this a lazier way of doing it? Am I forming a bad habit?

Tex

the difference is that you're doing things during the turn other than concentrating on the turn. If something were to happen during your turn and you need to stop, you have some extra things you need to stop doing before you can react. In short, ideally you need to get all of your braking done BEFORE you enter the turn.

african = 2 coconuts

-Holiday wrote:

Texfire wrote:At the risk of hijacking this thread back on track, what's the difference between engine braking prior to stopping or going into a turn and blipping? I'm not rolling on the throttle, just feathering the clutch on the way out. Is this a lazier way of doing it? Am I forming a bad habit?

Tex

the difference is that you're doing things during the turn other than concentrating on the turn. If something were to happen during your turn and you need to stop, you have some extra things you need to stop doing before you can react. In short, ideally you need to get all of your braking done BEFORE you enter the turn.

I was afraid I wasn't saying it very well. I do have all my braking done before entering the turn. I'll break out my sequence and ya'll can critique it.

1. See turn coming up, check mirror for car behind me before braking.
2. Roll off throttle, squeeze in clutch and downshift in one set of motions.
3. Flash brake if I have a car behind me, then slowly let out clutch on lower gear, letting the engine brake me. If the approach to the turn is closer or I'm stopping I'll add brake to this. If there is no car behind me, and the turn is far enough away I may not touch the brakes at all, letting engine braking lower my speed for entry.
4. Repeat process with another downshift if necessary to lower my entry speed further.
5. With transmission in gear I intend to complete turn in, and clutch disengaged, power into the turn and maintain throttle to smoothly complete turn. My goal is to not need to change the throttle throughout the turn, but if I need to change I prefer to need to add more throttle rather than have to roll off.
6. Exit turn and accelerate.

No where in this do I "blip" the throttle. If my speed is too high for the intended gear then I brake before disengaging the clutch. I guess I'm asking is there an advantage to doing so?

Tex

Texfire wrote:No where in this do I "blip" the throttle. If my speed is too high for the intended gear then I brake before disengaging the clutch. I guess I'm asking is there an advantage to doing so?
Tex

The point of blipping is to reduce the amount of engine braking. When cornering hard, a rider downshifts to get more torque for powering out as he reaches the apex. Slowing down is the last thing he wants to do at the apex, so he does whatever is necessary (blipping) to avoid engine braking.

In your case, you're using engine braking to set your approach speed. You want the bike to slow down, so there's no point in blipping. Just ease the clutch out as you said before.

Books like Nick Ienatsch's "Sport Riding Techniques" or Lee Parks' "Total Control" explain this better and in more depth than I can.

jstark47 wrote:In your case, you're using engine braking to set your approach speed. You want the bike to slow down, so there's no point in blipping. Just ease the clutch out as you said before.

Books like Nick Ienatsch's "Sport Riding Techniques" or Lee Parks' "Total Control" explain this better and in more depth than I can.

I dunno, I don't quite agree with that.

Downshifting without blipping causes the bike (well, my bike.. as well as my car) to lurch uncomfortably, no matter how smooth you are with the clutch. I'm also used to doing it on the car to be easier on the clutch... that doesn't apply to bikes though

jonnythan wrote:I dunno, I don't quite agree with that.

Downshifting without blipping causes the bike (well, my bike.. as well as my car) to lurch uncomfortably.....

"Your bike" hits the nail on the head. All bikes are different. I ride two bikes regularly, a Triumph Bonneville and a Suzuki V-Strom. They differ greatly in engine braking and how much they jump when downshifted. Gear selection (gear ratios are not evenly spaced), speed, and engine RPM's matter too. If blipping works for you, do it. (Sounds cool, too. ) If you're like Tex and have a technique worked out that doesn't rely on blipping, that's OK too, as long as your technique leaves you in control of the bike at the speeds at which you intend to ride.

You will also find that the type of bike you have will dictate how much you need to do this.

My EX500 had huge engine breaking and rev matching kept it smooth. My FZ5 doesn't have the same engine breaking at low rpms and I don't need to rev match to the same degree.

Okay a little light bulb went on in my head. If I was down shifting while turning then I would "blip" the throttle to keep the engine from braking the bike during the turn and potentially breaking my traction. I was assuming that blipping was done before the turn. My technique seems to work fine when driving in a straight line but, like any other kind of braking, doing it in a turn is potentially bad?

Tex

Blipping the throttle is primarily a performance riding technique, it can also be used anytime you want a downshift to be very smooth or to add a little engine music to your downshifts.

The idea is that you can go deeper and faster into a corner by delaying when you downshift, however because of the dynamics of traction you must not upset the bike, hence the blipping of the throttle while braking. This reduces the amount of traction that would otherwise be squandered through engine braking.

Using it as a performance technique is hard to do because you need to master braking and throttle control with the same five fingers (a little like playing a barre F7 chord ) once mastered though, it sets you up to be in the right gear to power out of the turn accelerating easily while keeping the traction formula in balance.

For normal riding there is no need to do it other than for smoothness, otherwise you can just feather the clutch (as you are already doing), and accept the momentary loss of control as you are off the power while feathering.

I always blip when I downshift, but rarely when cornering, I just don't have the braking and throttle control required down well enough to make me smoother, it just increases my risk of a fall - lol.

--IMHO

Idiot