Countersteering

[shane-o]

Ive had to get my bike license twice in 18 years, so I did it in the mid 80's and a couple of years ago (had an accident which cost me half of one of my legs a few years ago so I took a breather for a while, back now )

When I first did my license, a motorcycle officer follwed me around on my bike for 20 mins and "wellah" I had a license.

When I had to go back and get it again a couple of years ago, I had to attend a riding course (2 days) before I could be issued a license. They were teaching the new riders, absolutley everything they could fit in in that 2 days.

Alot of time was spent on the theory and practice of (CS). CS was taught using a portable traffic signal, you had to ride straight at the signal in 3rd gear, now depening on what colour it went at the last second as you were bearing down on it, dictated what direction you had to countersteer away.

It was being taught because we dont ride in perfect, safe from harm conditions that dont change from one minute to the next. Its important to know which bar to push in that split second emergency, thus swerving around the danger, which is not a natural act to do in my opinion, it is something learned by experiance, but we are talking about the inexperianced here so give em as much help as they can get I say.

[ZooTech]

instinct and the brain learning to do it without you knowing your learning is different to me. like riding a bicycle, most people cant explain How that works but can do it, its not instinct.

instinct is the urge inside of you that you have to drink water and eat, its built in knowledge. counter steering a motorcycle i doubt is built into the human brain. why would it be? man wasnt ment to be riding on two wheels with a motor.

So, in other words, this is yet another example of you playing Devil's advocate and arguing semantics, right? You're never satisfied with leaving well enough alone, you have to analyze each and every statement in hopes that you'll find one little word that doesn't quite fit its exact dictionary definition in the context it was used and turn that little quip into a thesis statement for an argument. People countersteer without knowing they're doing it. Call it instinct, call it reflex, call it dumb luck...who cares?

Its important to know which bar to push in that split second emergency, thus swerving around the danger, which is not a natural act to do in my opinion, it is something learned by experiance, but we are talking about the inexperianced here so give em as much help as they can get I say.

So you want to take a newbie straight off the street and tell him or her that at speed "X" you press the right grip to go left but at speed "Y" you press the right grip to go right. Then, to further confuse the poor guy/gal you go on to say that each bike is different and so speed "X" and speed "Y" will not be the same from one bike to another. Then you want to send them speeding towards an solid object and at the last minute decide which way to turn and how.

Not smart.

My dad has been riding longer than I've been alive (>28 years) and until yesterday he had never even heard of countersteering. If instinct/reflexes/dumb-luck have served him well for this long then why bother bringing the subject up during an MSF session? Just let the poor newbie do it on their own and bring up the concept of CS ten years later and make twenty bucks in the process (betting him that he turns left to go right).

[iwannadie]

instinct and the brain learning to do it without you knowing your learning is different to me. like riding a bicycle, most people cant explain How that works but can do it, its not instinct.

instinct is the urge inside of you that you have to drink water and eat, its built in knowledge. counter steering a motorcycle i doubt is built into the human brain. why would it be? man wasnt ment to be riding on two wheels with a motor.

So, in other words, this is yet another example of you playing Devil's advocate and arguing semantics, right? You're never satisfied with leaving well enough alone, you have to analyze each and every statement in hopes that you'll find one little word that doesn't quite fit its exact dictionary definition in the context it was used and turn that little quip into a thesis statement for an argument. People countersteer without knowing they're doing it. Call it instinct, call it reflex, call it dumb luck...who cares?

i dont know why i ever bother some times. in my opinion something that is instinct, hard wired in our brains from birth such as the needed to eat. then theres something you learn without realizing it is very different. some people learn easier than others. i dont think you cant say its instinct when the majority of people cant do it. some people learn to counter steer very easy others have problems with it. thats why its something that must be taught. you dont have to be taught to eat, a baby just grabs food and knows what to do with it for the most part.

i dont think ive ever put enough effort such as "analyze each and every statement in hopes that you'll find one little word that doesn't quite fit its exact dictionary definition in the context it was used and turn that little quip into a thesis statement for an argument." i just say my opinions.

[shane-o]

instinct and the brain learning to do it without you knowing your learning is different to me. like riding a bicycle, most people cant explain How that works but can do it, its not instinct.

instinct is the urge inside of you that you have to drink water and eat, its built in knowledge. counter steering a motorcycle i doubt is built into the human brain. why would it be? man wasnt ment to be riding on two wheels with a motor.

So, in other words, this is yet another example of you playing Devil's advocate and arguing semantics, right? You're never satisfied with leaving well enough alone, you have to analyze each and every statement in hopes that you'll find one little word that doesn't quite fit its exact dictionary definition in the context it was used and turn that little quip into a thesis statement for an argument. People countersteer without knowing they're doing it. Call it instinct, call it reflex, call it dumb luck...who cares?

Its important to know which bar to push in that split second emergency, thus swerving around the danger, which is not a natural act to do in my opinion, it is something learned by experiance, but we are talking about the inexperianced here so give em as much help as they can get I say.

So you want to take a newbie straight off the street and tell him or her that at speed "X" you press the right grip to go left but at speed "Y" you press the right grip to go right. Then, to further confuse the poor guy/gal you go on to say that each bike is different and so speed "X" and speed "Y" will not be the same from one bike to another. Then you want to send them speeding towards an solid object and at the last minute decide which way to turn and how.

Not smart.

My dad has been riding longer than I've been alive (>28 years) and until yesterday he had never even heard of countersteering. If instinct/reflexes/dumb-luck have served him well for this long then why bother bringing the subject up during an MSF session? Just let the poor newbie do it on their own and bring up the concept of CS ten years later and make twenty bucks in the process (betting him that he turns left to go right).

lmao

geezuz


so let me get this straight

apart from trying to gain cred from ya dads many years of riding , you saying that cause you have blindly done something for so many years (CS), unaware of the actions you have been making (CS), and managed to stay alive then so should everybody else???

wake up dood


I for one like to know what im in for about anything im doing, not find out 35 years later, like a tard "Oh is that what they call it, i didnt even know i was doing it, gee wizz"

real smart

[Radar]

Here is my theory:

The brain is the most powerful supercomputer in the known universe. It is so advanced that it can even "reprogram" itself, so to speak. Therefore, if a person rides a bike a lot, their brain will develop programming to handle the basic operation and balance required without bothering the active conciousness. Therefore, it is reasonable to conclude, that countersteering is another one of the brains balance programs taking effect. Not quite instinct but very closely related to it.

I think some of the problem is when riders think about it too much. Then you are manually overriding your subconscious programming. I nearly dropped my bike once by thinking about it too much. Therefore, in my limited experience, I think it would be best if you learn about countersteering AFTER you have been riding for a while. Better to concentrate on where you are going instead of how.

[iwannadie]

Here is my theory:

The brain is the most powerful supercomputer in the known universe. It is so advanced that it can even "reprogram" itself, so to speak. Therefore, if a person rides a bike lot, their brain will develop programming to handle the basic operation and balance required without bothering the active conciousness. Therefore, it is reasonable to conclude, that countersteering is another one of the brains balance programs taking effect. Not quite instinct but very closely related to it.

I think some of the problem is when riders think about it too much. Then you are manually overriding your subconscious programming. I nearly dropped my bike once by thinking about it too much. Therefore, in my limited experience, I think it would be best if you learn about countersteering AFTER you have been riding for a while. Better to concentrate on where you are going instead of how.

i think you need to learn counter steering before you ride no question. most people getting on a bike have been driving a car long enough they have 'turn the wheels and go that direction' set in their brain. in a panic situation on the bike you cant rely on what you learned in a car or your in trouble. you need to go into riding a bike with a whole different out look on turning. when first riding at slow speeds you can focus on CS and think about what your doing and how it works. later after you ride for a while it certain becomes something you dont have to think directly about to do it.

instinct is not learned as you go.

in·stinct
An inborn pattern of behavior that is characteristic of a species and is often a response to specific environmental stimuli: the spawning instinct in salmon; altruistic instincts in social animals

[Radar]

Well I dont drive cars so I havent developed any habits from that. Before even considering getting a motorized bike it is only common sense to be able to operate a bicycle without any trouble. I always rode my bicycle everywhere. My very first time on my scooter I quickly shifted over to bicycle mode after only a few seconds. I was riding and turning without a problem. The only thing I had to get used to was the placement of the controls. It may not be instinct, but it is something pretty darn close to it. Oh well. Like I said earlier, thats just my limited experience.

[iwannadie]

Well I dont drive cars so I havent developed any habits from that. Before even considering getting a motorized bike it is only common sense to be able to operate a bicycle without any trouble. I always rode my bicycle everywhere. My very first time on my scooter I quickly shifted over to bicycle mode after only a few seconds. I was riding and turning without a problem. The only thing I had to get used to was the placement of the controls. It may not be instinct, but it is something pretty darn close to it. Oh well. Like I said earlier, thats just my limited experience.

i got my motorcycle license before i really drove cars too. i just never liked cars much ha. shortly after i got my motorcycle license though i started driving cars more and i found i leaned into turns alot while in the car lol.
also when on the bike i got into the habbit of riding one handed(right hand) now in the car i do the same thing which is odd usually most people in cars steer left handed(right ready to shift in with an auto trans).

[ZooTech]

lmao

geezuz


so let me get this straight

apart from trying to gain cred from ya dads many years of riding , you saying that cause you have blindly done something for so many years (CS), unaware of the actions you have been making (CS), and managed to stay alive then so should everybody else???

wake up dood


I for one like to know what im in for about anything im doing, not find out 35 years later, like a tard "Oh is that what they call it, i didnt even know i was doing it, gee wizz"

real smart

Why teach something that doesn't even need to be taught? You're already trying to cram a ton of information into a new rider's head and the last thing they need to do is sit there and concentrate on which way to turn the handlebars, especially if they already turn them the correct way in the first place! That's the last thing they need to worry about when they're thinkin' about shifting, clutching out, feathering the throttle, balancing, which foot to put down at a light, and how to avoid being hit by traffic. Oh but sure, let's do it your way and tell 'em that on top of all that sometimes they have to push the right grip to go right and sometimes it's the left. Then throw in a lengthy explanation about the physics of gyroscopes and whatnot and send 'em off into traffic to see for themselves.

That, my friend, is pure genious...

[sapaul]

I am not wanting to get into the instinct argument here, but would like to say something. Having been taught countersteering and understanding the concept has probably saved my life twice. Both times at speeds in excess of 180 and both times when I have had to make violent "S" type swerves. Both times I have felt in full control and never panicked. Maybe I was contersteering before I was taught but I do not believe I could ride the way I do today without being taught. Call me a control freak but I never ever want to ride anything where I do not have 100% control.