Countersteering

[Radar]

This confuses me. I remember reading somewhere that in order to turn at speeds greater than 30mph you must turn in the opposite direction you want to go. I have been on the highway going about 50 around a curve. I dont remember steering in any special way. Is this something you do without thinking because the whole concept of countersteering makes my head hurt.

[Henriettaah]

Well you countersteer into a skid when driving four wheels But can't see how that would work with two going round a corner in the direction you want to go!

[ZooTech]

We had a big discussion about this a while back. Essentially, at low speeds, you steer in the direction of the turn just like in your cage. However, once the centrifugal forces of your spinning wheels kick in at higher speeds, this is no longer the case.

Let's say you're cruising at 65mph on my bike. Now, the 17" wheels are spinning at several hundred rpm and have essentially become two gyroscopes. Because of the nature of a gyroscope, which is resistant to changes of direction, if you were to turn the handlebars to the right (pushing the left grip) the bike would not go right. The reason for this is simple...you're attempting to rotate a spinning gyroscope, which is something it doesn't want to do. So, like electric current seeking the path of least resistance, the forces you are applying to the handlebars go to the next best place...the fork pivot. So, by turning the bars to the right you will cause the fork pivot to deflect to the left, which will cause the bike to "tip" to the left. This "controlled tipping" to the left will place you into a left bank and will result in the bike leaning and steering left.

The speed at which the rules change was the topic of debate for a page or so, but essentially it's different for every bike. I suspect since a scooter has a short wheelbase and relatively small wheels, the effect kicks in at a much different speed than the average motorcycle. My bike, for example, seems to succumb to the effect around 25mph, while others have stated that their bikes do it anywhere from walking speed on up to 15mph. It is something you do out of sheer instinct, so you may not even realize you're doing it.

[Ham Hock]

I would suggest you go by your local Barnes and Noble and find David Hough's book "Proficient Motorcycling."

It has the best no nonsense explanation of countersteering I have seen.

And it works too.

[sapaul]

http://www.flamesonmytank.co.za/navigation.htm

Zoo has this expanantion down to a fine art, have a look at the above site it has a full explanation with pics. On my daughters scoot, very similar to yours, we sit bolt upright, knees together and only push and pull to steer. This works from 5kph and is amazing as to how much lean we can get. Watching my daughter do this puts into perspective just how far over the scoots can go.

[ronboskz650sr]

Like zoo said, it becomes instinctive. I think when you learn to ride a bicycle, you wobble around so much because it is counterintuitive, and takes a little while to get ingrained in your brain (neuromuscular memory). After that, you just do it. I will say, though, it makes high speed riding more pleasant knowing ahead of time what you need to do, in case the unexpected happens before you get it fully ingrained. One day, you just realize you aren't thinking about it anymore.

[Henriettaah]

I would suggest you go by your local Barnes and Noble and find David Hough's book "Proficient Motorcycling."

Excellent - I'm waiting for this to be delivered

[iwannadie]

i like this example and tell everyone to try it(noone probably does but still).

sit on your bike, have a friend stand in front of you straddling your front tire. their feet should be firmly pressed against the tire and they Should be able to hold the bike up right with you on it(if not they can use their hands ot steady it). now sitting on the bike, friend in place. pick your feet up onto the pegs in a riding position. and Gently Press the right grip Away from you, the front wheel should ever so slightly want to turn left. But the bike will want to Lean to the Right, youll feel it wanting to lean. the bike turns because its leaning. Press the right grip away from you and you will turn right.

[ronboskz650sr]

i like this example and tell everyone to try it(noone probably does but still).

This is one of the first things I learned, and also the way I learned it. Once you offset the contact patches from the vehicle center of gravity, the vehicle has no choice but to tip over (lean) to the side where the weight (CG) is. Once the wheels are rolling other factors affect what speed this matters the most, as Zoo said. Because the steering has "rake" resulting in "trail"...the contact patches are offset when you push on a bar. If the steering head was straight up and down, this wouldn't happen, but you'd have a very unstable steering geometry...like a circus trick bike only worse...steering normally all the time, except it's so light your weight matters more, so you can lean with greater effect...who wants to practice THAT much?

[swatter555]

"My bike, for example, seems to succumb to the effect around 25mph, while others have stated that their bikes do it anywhere from walking speed on up to 15mph. It is something you do out of sheer instinct, so you may not even realize you're doing it."

It is very much instinct. I was doing it before I knew what counter-steering was. I also recall there being a debate back in the 60s about whether counter-steering even existed. I found that if you over-think the matter, you can press on the wrong bar. Just remember to PUSH on the left bar to go left, and PUSH on the right bar to go right. This applies to speeds when counter-steering starts to kick in.