China in the future

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High_Side
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#21 Unread post by High_Side »

jackM50black wrote:Regarding the Wal-Mart - China link: As long as a majority of Americans will drive across town to save 30 cents on a box of breakfast cereal, instead of ahopping at their own local grocery store, then we deserve what we get. We may be a culture that values low prices over ever other value, such as loyalty to American brands, loyalty to our local grocery, and loyalty to our nation. We are fools who will spend 40 cents in gasoline in order to save 30 cents at the cash register/ checkstand.

For Canadians... its the same... what loyalty do you have to Canada? Is it worth that extra 30 cents? :?
I'll go on the record before I start as saying "I'm not pro-China".
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#22 Unread post by sv-wolf »

basshole wrote:Your more likely to see another Tienneman Square before you see a "democracy" in China. I think if China was to become the "next great democracy", you'd see alot more westerners trying to buy property in China rather than trying to exploit the cheap labor. I don't think Chinese people immigrate to the US for the weather!
I'm not so sure. You would have said exactly the same about most European countries in the nineteenth century, and look what happened. Things can change very rapidly sometimes. Who predicted the French Revolution? Or the fall of the Soviet empire? Once capitalist relations become a dominant force in a country, they demand a free flow of information and capital. Pre-capitalist governments serving other interests are unable to provide that. If capitalism is to survive in China and compete internationally with other rising capitalist economies like India, I can't see any other alternative - some form of 'Democracy' and decentralisation will be necessary.

I can't help thinking about what happened in Soviet Russia. Lenin was intent on building 'State Capitalism' which he did ruthlessly. His successors continued with the same project, even though Stalin (and just about everybody else) decided to call it Communism. Eventually as capitalist relations came to predominate within Russia, the whole system of centralised control eventually fell apart. I don't think you can sustain a capitalist system under a rigid dictatorship.

But I guess nothing is completely predictable. If it comes about, it may take ten years or a hundred, who knows?
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#23 Unread post by old-n-slow »

Ahhh.. The Walmart bashers are going to love this. :lol:



BY JAMES PRESSLEY

Few suppliers can rebuff Wal-mart Stores inc. and thrive. Jim Wier did both. Soon
after his company bought lawnmower maker Snapper Inc. in 2002, Wier traveled to Wal-mart's headquarters in Bentonville, Arkansas, recounts Charles Fishman in “The Wal-mart Effect”.

Inside, the executive landed in a vice president's office so cheaply furnished that Wier had to perch on a lawn chair. His message: Snapper wasn't making money selling lawnmowers at Wal-Mart's "everyday low prices," so he planned to stop deliveries and focus on higher end dealers. He was sacrificing almost a fifth of Snapper's business.
"Once you get hooked on the volume, it’s like getting hooked on cocaine," he said later.
Manufacturers, workers, even Wal-Mart itself are suffering from an addiction to low prices, according to The Wal-Mart Effect and another new book on the world's biggest retailer. The Bully of Bentonville by Anthony Bianco. Read both if you want to know why Americans are "shopping themselves out of jobs."

Consider Vlasic Foods International Inc., which sought bankruptcy protection after Wal-
Mart began hawking 200,000 gallons of Vlasic pickles a week. The gallon jars were priced so low — $2.97 apiece — that it "chewed up" profit margins and cannibalized Vlasic's other products, writes Fishman, an editor at Fast Company.

Low prices mangled bicycle marker Huffy Corp., too. Though Wal-Mart ordered 900,000
bikes at a time, it paid so little that Huffy had to shut U.S. factories and subcontract production to China, where workers earned 41 cents an hour or less, Bianco writes. Even then. Huffy skidded into bankruptcy court.

Less understood is how the retailer has revolutionized non-suppliers. Snapper, for example, is still building all its lawnmowers in McDonough, Ga. Yet the "Wal-Mart effect" on prices remains so pervasive that Snapper has introduced robots, lasers and computer-driven equipment, Fishman says. Productivity has tripled: 650 factory workers make more lawn mowers, leaf blowers and snow blowers than 1,200 made a decade ago. Snapper reschedules production every week to match the pace of sales. "It operates, literally, in Wal-Mart time," Fishman says.

Wal-Mart is so big that 90 per cent of Americans "live within 15 miles of a Wal-Mart," Fishman says. It's so big that it can dictate terms to Procter & Gamble Co. and Unilever.
Fishman excels in explaining how Wal-Mart cuts prices on everything from lingerie to fresh salmon from Chile sold for a baffling $4.84 a pound. "If you were so inclined, you couldn't mail a pound of salmon back to Chile for $4.84," he says. Yet Fishman doesn't rush to judgment.

"The question of whether Wal-Mart is good or bad for America is the wrong question because, like the car, Wal-Mart isn't going anywhere," he says.

For Bianco, Wal-Mart isn't a car; it's a steamroller. "In the name of the shopper, Wal-Mart systematically bullies its workers, its suppliers and the residents of towns and cities," he writes. Bianco, a writer at Business Week, paints a Dickensian picture. He offers examples of how Wal-Mart managers have locked workers in at night, smashed union activity, violated child labor laws and hired illegal immigrants.

Though Wal-Mart was always demanding, the company lost its human touch with employees after founder Sam Walton stepped down in 1988, the author argues.
Workers became "component parts" in a merciless retail machine. Bianco shows how Walton inspired employees, pinched pennies and loaded bird dogs into his pickup truck to go quail hunting.

Walton was a "Rockefeller of the Ozarks" — a frugal man who built a company that changed how business was done in America, the author says. The model, in Walton's case, was unpretentious, tightfisted and geared to the Protestant work ethic. Backward it wasn't, at least not technologically. Wal-Mart was among the first retailers to use computers to track inventory, adopt bar codes and exchange data electronically with suppliers. Walton's successor, David Glass, created a digital brain (capacity: 460 terabytes) able to devise work schedules that pare payroll costs by matching staffing to store traffic.

"Socially responsible" investors are pressing Wal-Mart to clean up its record. In 2004, |
Wal-Mart suspended purchases from 1,200 contractors that failed to fix labor violations and permanently banned more than 100 other plants, Bianco writes. Wal-Mart's image took a beating after Hurricane Katrina, when thugs rampaged through New Orleans armed, as Bianco says, "with guns looted from Wal-Mart stores." In response, volunteer Wal-Mart truck drivers hauled emergency supplies to shelters. The company donated $17
million to other relief efforts.

Since then, chief executive H. Lee Scott has called for increasing the U.S. minimum wage of $5.15 an hour. This comes as no surprise. Wal-Mart's core" working-class customers are struggling, squeezed by high oil prices and flattening pay scales caused partly by Wal-Mart itself, Bianco writes. The question, he asks, is whether "even Wal-Mart can thrive in a Wal-Mart world."

Bianco spins a narrative that traces Wal-Mart's roots back to the Ozark hills, showing how regional strengths became national liabilities. Fishman offers a more thematic and less editorial look at how the company affects everything from workers at a sprinkler factory in Illinois to U.S. imports from China.
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#24 Unread post by flynrider »

Nothing new there. Wal-Mart is such a huge seller that they can dictate terms to their suppliers. For many manufacturers Wal-Mart's volume accounts for 20% to 30% of their total sales, so they can't afford to say no. Rubbermaid execs tried saying no in the 90s and lost their company.

By dictating the price of a commodity, Wal-Mart also indirectly dictates where and by whom it will be made. For most suppliers that means moving off shore, or going out of business.

If the goal is selling huge volumes at rock bottom prices, Wal-Mart is doing exactly the right thing. Personally, while I don't fault the company's goals (making money), I'm not crazy about all of the collateral damage caused by their strategy. As such, I just don't give them any of my money. I don't really understand why anyone involved in the manufacturing industry would shop there either, but apparently they still do.
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#25 Unread post by scan »

Yeah, I guess I'm a Wal-mart basher, but I understand why they do what they do. Like most large companies their main interest is their own. They have had the biggest impact because they offer one of the most needed services in a suffering economy - cheap goods for poor people.

This Wal-mart thing, and other familiar businesses operate on demand and demand based volume. To me this sounds like good capitalism. Not a bad thing in theory, but its execution may kill us.
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#26 Unread post by basshole »

I see lot's of small businesses who try the Wal-Mart effect on their suppliers as far as pricing and leverage. Most suppliers don't have the wiggle room to cut prices anymore, especially when customers refuse to pay on time.
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#27 Unread post by blues2cruise »

I have only been to Wal-mart twice. I don't plan on ever going again.

If I have to use a dollar worth of gas to save 20 cents it does not make any sense to go to Wal-Mart.
Aside from that, the lineups are so very long and my spare time is short.
I prefer to shop in a place locally based so that my country's economy thrives...
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#28 Unread post by scan »

blues2cruise wrote:I have only been to Wal-mart twice. I don't plan on ever going again.

If I have to use a dollar worth of gas to save 20 cents it does not make any sense to go to Wal-Mart.
Aside from that, the lineups are so very long and my spare time is short.
I prefer to shop in a place locally based so that my country's economy thrives...
We need a lot more people like you in the world Blues. I live about 10 minutes from a Wal-mart and the place is always full of people. I do not shop there myself, but the area where the Wal-mart is, also has a Home Depot, Best Buy, Circuit City, Lowe's, Meijer's, Costco, Dick's sports, and maybe one or two more super type stores. These place are full of people shopping, and I'm sure many have left a local area to do so. I've visited many areas in the US, where I see the same thing. And I've seen several dead small towns as well. Maybe your country has a shot, but we seem to be stuck in a rut. I buy local when I can, but I also watch places close every year in my small town.

Just a small example. A guy in my town sold drums and rhythm related stuff for the past 26 years. He has to close because in his opinion, the Internet is killing him. People will come in, look at goods, and buy them somewhere else. It was a sweet little shop, and the guy was a great guy, and although Wal-mart didn't kill him, something made it so he had lots of traffic, but no buyers.
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#29 Unread post by 9000white »

home depot has done the same thing to independent hardware stores here.they have all went out of business so now you have to go to home depot and stand in line at 1 of 2 cash registers that are open because they are too cheap to hire cashiers for the other 12 registers in the store. they know there is no other place for you to buy now so thats just too bad that you stood in line 30 minutes to pay for something that would have cost 50 cents more at an independent store.
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#30 Unread post by basshole »

And don't forget the hoops they make their suppliers jump through. It's almost like they throw a PO up in the air and then announce who ever jumps the highest gets it.
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