Save the earth, buy a scooter

[storysunfolding]

Im suprised nobody has tried to develop one yet.

They're working on it. It's a matter of size. Getting something small enough for a bike is the real challenge.

[HYPERR]

Im suprised nobody has tried to develop one yet.

They're working on it. It's a matter of size. Getting something small enough for a bike is the real challenge.

Hybrid is also a farce technology.

[csspostal]

GM had a full Electric Car back in 1996 leased and in production all of a sudden they recalled all leased vehicles and destroyed all evidence of its existance.

Now if they kept production going for another 20 years we may have already had something small enough to fit into a bike.

[Wrider]

And Jay Leno has in his garage a fully electric car from something like 1909 in which the original batteries still work.

[csspostal]

And Jay Leno has in his garage a fully electric car from something like 1909 in which the original batteries still work.

Imagine if the possibilities if the oil companies didn't run the show?

[High_Side]

And Jay Leno has in his garage a fully electric car from something like 1909 in which the original batteries still work.

Imagine if the possibilities if the oil companies didn't run the show?

I think that you are giving the oil companies a little too much credit. If the technology existed for an effective and economical electric car they would be running around everywhere. When that technology exists economics will see to it that it happens and the oil companies will not be able to stop it.

The real chalenge is would they be more environmentally effective and a high mileage conventional car? Politics not economics will blur this answer for quite a long time.

[sunshine229]

And Jay Leno has in his garage a fully electric car from something like 1909 in which the original batteries still work.

Imagine if the possibilities if the oil companies didn't run the show?

I think that you are giving the oil companies a little too much credit. If the technology existed for an effective and economical electric car they would be running around everywhere. When that technology exists economics will see to it that it happens and the oil companies will not be able to stop it.

The real chalenge is would they be more environmentally effective and a high mileage conventional car? Politics not economics will blur this answer for quite a long time.

I work for an oil company (boo hiss...I know...) and they do run the show but mostly because they give heaps of money back into government. IMO there would be other technology out there if the car companies, oil companies and governments weren't sleeping in the same bed. They all have far too much (moo-lah) to gain in staying with the current technologies.



On the scooter front - scooters are taking over in many parts of the world and only North America is a bit removed from that wave (although I hear it's picking up).

[RhadamYgg]

One of my buddies visits Italy and I was all excited to find out about what bikes he saw there - and he said he didn't see hardly any motorcycles, they were all scooters.

[RhadamYgg]

I don't know if hybrid (gas/electric) motors are necessarily a farce. Certainly, when you put any thought in to it - hybrids are a technology mostly involved in increasing fuel economy of an existing infrastructure based on gas. So, we could all be riding Prius class cars, but if gas costs $10 a gallon, we are still pretty screwed. And we are also still pretty screwed if gas runs out.

Hybrid cars have all the problems (lessened) that gas cars have and all the problems electric cars have (batteries).

The major problem with electric cars is of course the batteries and scaling up production of something that involves scarce materials (some of which even more scarce than gas). If every car was en electric - we'd complain about why the car price and the battery price got separated and why the batteries cost 2 times as much as the car.

Hydrogen fueled cars also have a major issue as well. It takes energy to split the water H2O into hydrogen and oxygen. Then it produces energy basically when you put them back together. (if I understand the process correctly) So, the net energy from these processes is zero. We have to put energy in to get energy out.

-We have very little hydrogen found naturally. So, we have to split water to get hydrogen and this takes energy. If the energy that generates the hydrogen comes from wind, ,geothermal, water (currents) or solar sources then we have a net gain - we don't produce pollution and we are able to move our cars, trucks, motorcycles and scooters with little impact to the environment. If the source of energy is coal, natural gas or even nuclear - we are producing wastes in order to produce our movement.

Granted, solar energy using solar cells involves wasteful and poisonous chemicals; however, solar farms that involve focusing the light at a water tank and heating the tank to generate energy (and possibly to generate hydrogen directly) would be pretty efficient.

The net of splitting the water molecule and then having water be the result of running a vehicle can be good, but we need an infrastructure that can support these processes.

Or, we can all start living in high-efficiency designed cities - where we live close to where we work - and suburban sprawl will be a thing only for the super rich. No matter what it takes a specific amount of energy to move an object (such as a vehicle and our rotund behinds) and the less you have to move it - the less energy you need.

[High_Side]

I don't know if hybrid (gas/electric) motors are necessarily a farce. Certainly, when you put any thought in to it - hybrids are a technology mostly involved in increasing fuel economy of an existing infrastructure based on gas. So, we could all be riding Prius class cars, but if gas costs $10 a gallon, we are still pretty screwed. And we are also still pretty screwed if gas runs out.

Hybrid cars have all the problems (lessened) that gas cars have and all the problems electric cars have (batteries).

The major problem with electric cars is of course the batteries and scaling up production of something that involves scarce materials (some of which even more scarce than gas). If every car was en electric - we'd complain about why the car price and the battery price got separated and why the batteries cost 2 times as much as the car.

Hydrogen fueled cars also have a major issue as well. It takes energy to split the water H2O into hydrogen and oxygen. Then it produces energy basically when you put them back together. (if I understand the process correctly) So, the net energy from these processes is zero. We have to put energy in to get energy out.

-We have very little hydrogen found naturally. So, we have to split water to get hydrogen and this takes energy. If the energy that generates the hydrogen comes from wind, ,geothermal, water (currents) or solar sources then we have a net gain - we don't produce pollution and we are able to move our cars, trucks, motorcycles and scooters with little impact to the environment. If the source of energy is coal, natural gas or even nuclear - we are producing wastes in order to produce our movement.

Granted, solar energy using solar cells involves wasteful and poisonous chemicals; however, solar farms that involve focusing the light at a water tank and heating the tank to generate energy (and possibly to generate hydrogen directly) would be pretty efficient.

The net of splitting the water molecule and then having water be the result of running a vehicle can be good, but we need an infrastructure that can support these processes.

Or, we can all start living in high-efficiency designed cities - where we live close to where we work - and suburban sprawl will be a thing only for the super rich. No matter what it takes a specific amount of energy to move an object (such as a vehicle and our rotund behinds) and the less you have to move it - the less energy you need.

Well said RhadamYgg (how the heck am I supposed to say that anyway?)

I like it when people put practical thought in to energy discussion, when there seems to be so much rhetoric out there every where else you look. You hit the H2 issue dead on, yet there are still people out there pushing for this pipe dream (Gov. Arnie for one) In my area there is a huge push for wind energy and the marketing people are pushing more expensive green contracts. What they fail to mention however is that the wind only blows about 30% of the time, and to make up the difference, new simple cycle gas turbines are in place to make up the balance at an extremely low efficiency. There is no silver bullet with the answer, however if battery technology ever get's to where it needs to be I believe that a smart grid could really make the most out of renewable energy sources such as wind and solar. Charge your batteries at home while the sun is shining and the wind is blowing.