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ZooTech wrote:

shane-o wrote: lmao

geezuz


so let me get this straight

apart from trying to gain cred from ya dads many years of riding , you saying that cause you have blindly done something for so many years (CS), unaware of the actions you have been making (CS), and managed to stay alive then so should everybody else???

wake up dood


I for one like to know what im in for about anything im doing, not find out 35 years later, like a tard "Oh is that what they call it, i didnt even know i was doing it, gee wizz"

real smart

Why teach something that doesn't even need to be taught? You're already trying to cram a ton of information into a new rider's head and the last thing they need to do is sit there and concentrate on which way to turn the handlebars, especially if they already turn them the correct way in the first place! That's the last thing they need to worry about when they're thinkin' about shifting, clutching out, feathering the throttle, balancing, which foot to put down at a light, and how to avoid being hit by traffic. Oh but sure, let's do it your way and tell 'em that on top of all that sometimes they have to push the right grip to go right and sometimes it's the left. Then throw in a lengthy explanation about the physics of gyroscopes and whatnot and send 'em off into traffic to see for themselves.

That, my friend, is pure genious...

agree to disagree ???

peace

I learned to ride without knowledge of countersteering. I've refined my riding with knowledge of countersteering..but I did it on a bicycle at higher speeds (35-40 mph downhill). That's a weird variation, I know, but when I returned to motorcycles a year ago, I think it helped me. I've always said, there are many ways to skin this cat. If someone "can't countersteer", they will meet the side of the road, or another vehicle in short order. Anyone with that inability, must slow to the appropriate speed where they can ride around like you do on a tricycle, until they get the confidence to speed up and do it. You HAVE TO do it at a certain speed or you WILL go where you don't want to..it's physics. Maybe this is a good reason for the little bike as a beginner bike...lower speed where this kicks in, so you have to learn it at a lower speed. On Zoo's bike, a true beginner could ride around the whole MSf course and never get to practice it at all, because the speeds are too low. Then they'd hit the road, and get a new experience, after all that "practice" in the parking lot. When you're new, practicing for several hours changes things, and having a long bike with a high minimum speed for countersteering could really be counterproductive in the MSF environment, I would think.

shane-o wrote: agree to disagree ???

peace

Fair enough.

ronboskz650sr wrote:I learned to ride without knowledge of counter steering. I've refined my riding with knowledge of counter steering..but I did it on a bicycle at higher speeds (35-40 mph downhill). That's a weird variation, I know, but when I returned to motorcycles a year ago, I think it helped me.

Well, perhaps it's something that should be taught in one of the intermediate or advanced rider courses they offer...sort of a "finer art of motorcycling" course. Personally I don't think it needs to be taught to beginners unless you have some newbie that insists on staring at the triple clamp while he rides, expecting it to turn in some preconceived direction. If you tell them to look in the direction of the turn (which I'm assuming the MSF instructors do) their arms will do exactly what they need to do every time, without conscious input. So, let 'em get the hang of shifting, balancing, and clutching before breaking the news to them that turning left makes you go right at speeds above "X". That's too much for a newbie to absorb. Remember "K.I.S.S."?

We talked about countersteering on day one in the MSF and it worked pretty good for us.

As a beginner rider I think I am just starting to grasp this concept. I didn't really understand what it was about until I was turning at an intersection at a normal speed and for some reason I felt myself having to make the widest damn turn, almost hitting the curb. I'm getting better though, lol...

Hmmm, why is this a controversial subject? Steering is countersteering on a motorcycle at anything above a crawl.

Try this gentle test: get your bike up to about 30 mph. Now, gently PUSH on the right bar. Wow! You're moving right. Straighten out, then gently PUSH on the left bar. Like magic, you are now moving left.

Now, on dry, even pavement, do this fairly quickly. Push right, then left. Go ahead, lean the f'ker right over. Do it again, push more, lean more, and more quickly. When you get over your heebie jeebies try it with a fixed visual point of reference. Road kill, a bot's dot, whatever. That maneuver will save your life someday.