Total Motorcycle Community Forums

A proper clutchless shift does not damage the transmission. When you back of the gas, you are unloading the gears and dogs.

BAD shifts break the transmission.

1. Putting too much pressure on the shift lever breaks/bends shift forks
2. Mis-timed clutch operations strains the dogs/forks
3. Shifting with the clutch, but leaving the engine throttle wide open (Power shifts) breaks the transmission.

Properly shifted, with or without the clutch, increases longevity.

Improperly shifted, with or without the clutch, decreases longevity.

I bet the pictures of the blown transmission was by someone shifting HARD, ie: stomping on the shift lever. With or without the clutch, it is a recipe for disaster. The 1 - N - 2 shift is the usual suspect on most bikes and are often "missed". Missed shifts damge the transmission.

The lesson here is too learn to shift properly and don't use excessive force.

I have shifted Bikes, Trucks, Cars without a clutch and with minimal force on the shift lever. I had a Tractor with a 12 Speed Spicer, (no synchros) and it shifted better without the clutch. However, timing was critical.

Bad technique will kill a transmission, good technique won't.

Learn good technique, and use the clutch when needed and avoid the clutch when desired.

[/u]

mydlyfkryzis wrote:I had a Tractor with a 12 Speed Spicer, (no synchros) and it shifted better without the clutch. However, timing was critical.

Obviously you understand how trannys work.

You obviously are also an extremely skilled driver as well. To execute a perfect clutchless upshift on a bike like the CBR w/ a butter smooth unit construction tranny and a wet clutch does not take much talent. To perform the same on a Spicer w/ no synchro takes a lot of skill, timing, experience, and just a general intangible knack for knowing just how the gears are spinning.

As I stated before, mechanical feedback, resistance, and noise do not lie. A properly executed clutchless upshift on a bike like the CBR will always result in less noise and resistance than a clutched one. As a matter of fact, the amount of resistance is about equivalent to slicing melted butter with a hot knife.
If the gears are being grinded as the staunch opposers claim, there will certainly be mechanical and audio feedback.

mydlyfkryzis wrote: Learn good technique, and use the clutch when needed and avoid the clutch when desired.

Amen brother! Could not have said it better!

Here's a video from my race bike, using an electric shifter for the upshifts (clutchless - it cuts the sparks for milliseconds for the shift). I used to do the same without the clutch manually.

This is on a race bike, not a street bike, and after 2 years of racing this bike my transmission was clean. The motor was ready to be freshened up but the transmission was fine. If you know what you're doing, it is not a problem. If you don't , well then it can be very messy.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0qW-5IBl8UA

hi-side wrote: If you know what you're doing, it is not a problem.

Which you obviously do, judging from the video.

HYPERR wrote:

hi-side wrote: If you know what you're doing, it is not a problem.

Which you obviously do, judging from the video.

That was after 10 years of racing... I definitely had very messy on my first race bike, ate up the dogs in 4th thru 6th gears and it cost me a thousand bucks.

Can someone explain how you "match revs" without using the clutch?

jonnythan wrote:Can someone explain how you "match revs" without using the clutch?

You slightly load the shifter with your foot, then when you just back off the throttle and the revs are matched with rear wheel speed, it slides into gear.

hi-side wrote:Here's a video from my race bike, using an electric shifter for the upshifts (clutchless - it cuts the sparks for milliseconds for the shift). I used to do the same without the clutch manually.

This is on a race bike, not a street bike, and after 2 years of racing this bike my transmission was clean. The motor was ready to be freshened up but the transmission was fine. If you know what you're doing, it is not a problem. If you don't , well then it can be very messy.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=0qW-5IBl8UA

Awesome video. I wonder about this guy though.

highside

Which came on after your video. I mean, I'm a total noob, but did he give it gas while braking and turning? And for a slow-speed high-side.. That looking like it hurt like hell.

RhadamYgg

hi-side wrote: it slides into gear.

That's a good way of putting it. In a properly executed clutchless upshift, the gears are never forced in. The shifter is ever so slightly loaded and when the throttle is closed a smidgen, the upshift is so smooth and effortless, it's like as the gear is being sucked in by vacuum.

Lets make a poem or a song about how well it shifts into gear like sweet oil flowing down a canyon of slippery bunnies.