Total Motorcycle Community Forums

While you are in school is a very good time to do that, as it's easy to get distracted from thinking on these things. When you stop thinking about them, you are a prime target for exclusivity like Scan is talking about. It really takes alot of study to wring it all out... A trip through the bible from cover to cover, reading every night until It was done, is what really did it for me. I had heard it all before, and was made to attend church as a child, but never really got it until I read the whole thing myself.

The bible says, like Scan sortof alluded to, "let him who will not work, not eat" ...And that " he who doesn't take care of his family is worse than the "infidel" (different translations use different words for this, including Gentile, pagan, basically any other type of belief where family isn't important enough to preserve, applied to that era). Kindof sounds like one of the age-old arguments against welfare you hear, doesn't it? That's just an example of the age-less wisdom in there....we are supposed to do the work!

Some churches have a structured reading program that takes you through it in a year. That was way too restrictive for me. I just read each night until I was too tired to comprehend anymore, taking notes, asking questions, and going back where necessary. It took a lot less than a year that way, because I eventually got to the point where I couldn't wait to get off work and read some more. I was 22 when I did that, and it really changed my life. I'm 48 now, and life hasn't always handed me an apple. Still, I believe my faith keeps me from going insane in the midst of the roller coaster ride life sometimes is. Scan..no offense taken, as you know. God bless, everybody! Back to the job search. Merry Christmas!

ronboskz650sr wrote:You still haven't read it. Or understood it. This is my last reply to you. I know when I'm wasting time. Have your arguement. Feel free to keep quoting my posts. Merry Christmas.

Though I suspect that you will not read this, I should note that I actually did read the analysis that you linked to on an earlier page.

That analysis is a minority opinion of the First Amendment's take on the relationship between religion and government.

Now, a minority opinion is not necessarily wrong, of course, but it should be evaluated in the context of more than 200 years of legal interpretation that has gone in a different direction.

And a P.S. to ZooTech: WWJD?

Spiff wrote:And a P.S. to ZooTech: WWJD?

He would love the ACLU, just as He taught "love thine enemy". Good thing for believers I am not Jesus.

ZooTech wrote:


When dealing with such things as the life of an unborn child, there is only right and wrong. You cannot apply any relativity to the subject, such as what one society feels about it may be right for that society, but wrong for another. Either you're killing a living person or you're not. So your argument amounts to nothing more than justification for the act because "it's gonna happen anyway so why not make it sanitary?" That's akin to handing out condoms to rapists.

Ouch! Absolutist notions always worry me, Zoo. We have we heard them too often before in totalitarian cultures and in the totalitarian aspects of our own culture. And there has been a toll of human misery and suffering that has always arisen as a result of them. It is (of course) coincidental that those who hold to such absolutist ideas always believe that their own set of values coincide exactly with what they take to be absolute ones.

Personally, I have a strong sense of the vulnerability and the value of life - all life - and am very saddened by any circumstance that leads to the abortion of a foetus. I think there would have to be very extreme circumstances to make me agree to the abortion of one of my own unborn children.

But as far as I can see, the issues involved are very complex and emotive: the values that people hold are tied up with all sorts of religious and doctrinaire beliefs; the evidence brought forward to determine the issues is very controversial; and the circumstances surrounding an individual decision of whether to abort a foetus are very so varied that they raise a whole bundle of difficult moral questions. We all know what they are and I don't have to reiterate them here.

So, despite the strength of my feelings on this, I do not regard myself as a fount of moral wisdom in this very troubling issue and furthermore I do not accept that any group with a doctrinaire point of view has the right to dictate to others how they should think or behave or what should be available to them - no matter how strongly they hold their opinions or how firmly they believe that they have some kind of hotline to the fount of absolute moral truth.

So then you're content to float through life seeing everything in shades of grey?

Look, everyone knows what happens nine months after intercourse - especially without birth control. If someone is not in a position to care for a child, then how dare they go through the motions of creating one? What, because it's their right to get their rocks off? So I suppose then the baby has to pay the price for their lack of education/preparation/whatever? Again we find ourselves back at accountability (or lack thereof). It's not "P.C." to call someone irresponsible for having sex without thinking ahead nine months so we've developed a "medical procedure" that will literally suck the little "oopsie" right out of the womb. Meanwhile the employees at the abortion clinic clock out at five o'clock and head down to rally support for some Crip on death row. Real nice...

Tell ya what, I'll be eligible for presidency in seven years...so here's my plan...my first order of business as president will be to split the country right down the middle...along the Mississippi. We'll flip a coin. Heads all the Liberal Democrats get the western half, tails the Conservative Republicans do. Both new countries will offer open enrollment for citizenship for ten years to give everyone time to uproot and move if necessary. We Conservatives will follow the Constitution as it is written and as it was actually intended by our God-fearing founding fathers. You libs can borrow a page or two from France and/or Communist China or anywhere else you worship.

I'm so fed up with the obvious divide in this country that I believe this is the only way. I think libs need to fall flat on their face before they'll admit they're wrong, and even then I'm sure they'll find a way to blame us. Anyone care to explain how Carter and Clinton can invoke an inherent Presidential right to eavesdrop on international coorespondence yet when Bush does it the media calls for impeachment???

It's freakin' mind-boggling.......

ZooTech wrote:So then you're content to float through life seeing everything in shades of grey?

No, Zoo. Read my post. Nevertheless, the world is full of difference: shades of grey and loads of other colours too. Black and white only exist within the narrowness of a person's mind and intolerance is usually a sign of ignorance and impatience. There are things I would fight for, but not this. There is too much room for genuine argument on the matter of abortion and too few facts - despite what you like to think. Focusing hatefully on other people's sexuality reduces the discussion so narrowly that it turns an important issue into a stand up joke.

ZooTech wrote:I'm so fed up with the obvious divide in this country that I believe this is the only way.

It strikes me you don't really tolerate other points of view,
do you, Zoo? Unfortunately, the human race is a collective endeavour and our individual opinions don't count for much in the grand scheme of things. Sobering thought!


P.S. I'm not a 'Liberal' - whatever that may mean in the U.S. Horrible thought! We don't think inside each other's boxes.

ZooTech wrote:So then you're content to float through life seeing everything in shades of grey?

Life always is grey. where there are people involved, there are no identical situations ever...

All we can do in life, is to think carefully about every action we take, and what it would mean to everyone around us

As regards the abortion issue... you may feel that killing an unborn foetus is an unthinkable act, but in gods view (note I am an astheist, so I'm hypothesising here) whats the difference between aborting a foetus, and swatting a fly (or even killing bacteria on a work surface - if you take it to the extreme), they are all his creatures

whats the difference between aborting a foetus, and swatting a fly

We're not supposed to kill our own young...we have a strong feeling about it because it just feels unnatural. We need to protect our children at all costs, not kill them if they are inconvenient.

There are alot of issues I have with abortion, one being the killing of life and the other being that it takes two to make a child.

Wasnt this post about xmas?

but we're supposed to kill animals other than for reasons of food and protection

Arguing on the internet is like the Special Olympics.

Even if you win, you're still mentally challenged.