I posted this in the newb forums...cause i'm still a newb, but i thought this would be more appropriete.
Original Post Here
K, so now i'm kind of getting frustrated,
I rode a lot this weekend, and once again i had the same ignition problem.
After riding for over an hour i stopped for some lunch, parked my bike out front and went inside to eat. When i returned about 30 minutes later my bike wouldn't turn over....
This was by far the worst it's been, It took me over a minute to get the bike started and it really seemed to be struggling just to start. It makes the initial "chuga chuga" sound but doesn't actually turn the engine over, I litterally held the starter down for 10 seconds to no avail...after stopping, waiting a few seconds, (multiple attempts at this) I FINALLY got it to turn over...but i had to give it a lot of throttle to make it catch...twice i didn't give it enough gas and it just stalled before the motor could catch...
Does this still seem like a battery issue to you guys?
I JUST took it in for service and they told me everything was fine,...and it was normal to have to try and start it a couple time (every so often)...But this is a random problem, I can almost pin point when it will happen and it's ONLY have i've warmed the engine up for while. it ALWAYS starts perfectly when it's cold. This is the 7th time it has had trouble starting with a warm engine.
My engine temp has never gone above 230-f, and usually sits around 185-200-f when i'm not idle. So it's not "overheating"
Is this just dealer service department Bullshit?
Either way i'm calling them today to have it looked at again,...but i would love some advice from you guys that would help me maybe understand what to ask for...
Ignition Troubles
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Tarheel365
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BuzZz
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So when this happens, you say the starter struggles to actually turn the engine over? As in it will not make a complete revolution? Or is it spinning over but not firing?
If it fails to turn over on the starter freely, then it is some sort of power supply problem, or other electrical problem (bad battery charge, starter getting tight when hot, bad wiring connection) and is definately not a normal situation for a new bike. I would check all the connections between the battery, switch and starter first if this is the situation.
If it is spinning but not firing, then it could be as simple as the fuel injection computer having to calibrate itself to whatever conditions it finds itself in. It needs to spin a few times to get those readings. It could be the engine heat evaporating the fuel in the system immediately before and in the injectors, and it takes a few revolutions to move the vapor out and raw fuel in. Or it could be Monty Python... (something completely different).
How hot is it where you are?
If it fails to turn over on the starter freely, then it is some sort of power supply problem, or other electrical problem (bad battery charge, starter getting tight when hot, bad wiring connection) and is definately not a normal situation for a new bike. I would check all the connections between the battery, switch and starter first if this is the situation.
If it is spinning but not firing, then it could be as simple as the fuel injection computer having to calibrate itself to whatever conditions it finds itself in. It needs to spin a few times to get those readings. It could be the engine heat evaporating the fuel in the system immediately before and in the injectors, and it takes a few revolutions to move the vapor out and raw fuel in. Or it could be Monty Python... (something completely different).
How hot is it where you are?
No Witnesses.... 
I said it on the newb forum. Check your engine oil. It's easy to do and you can quickly establish if fuel is in the oil...smell it, also see if the level is high.
If fuel is passing the rings and ending up in the crankcase it will thin the oil and wash lubricant off the cylinder walls possibly causing difficulty cranking when hot.
If this is the case the cause could be by not loading the engine sufficiently during engine break in.
If fuel is passing the rings and ending up in the crankcase it will thin the oil and wash lubricant off the cylinder walls possibly causing difficulty cranking when hot.
If this is the case the cause could be by not loading the engine sufficiently during engine break in.
sorry i guess my termonology is off.
I will try to explain the process.
When i press the ignition button it attempts to start. It makes all the right noises, but does not actually "Catch" When it happens, it does not (lack of proper word) start, to the point where i can even give it gas.
Eventually after a few attempts it will "Fire" and i can attempt to twist the throttle, give it gas and get it to actually start.
The worst case i had to hold the throttle down for a few seconds to keep it from stalling.
Once it starts it has no problems, it's never turned off or even hiccuped on it's own.
- Flynrider, I live in Southern California and my dealer service department (where i bought the bike) said it was fine, and that it was vapor lock. (This has been suggested by others as well)
- BuzZz, I dont believe it's the battery simply because it's never acted like my car as far as low/dead battery (Granted i dont know enough about bikes to understand the difference in mechanics) Your "Fuel Injection Computer" theory sounds like it may be a possibility. It always starts eventually after a few attempts, and never has this problem under regular heating situations. it has ONLY had this issue 5 times over my 1000 Miles. each on different occasions and each occasion the exact same conditions. Hot day (75-90f) after i've heated the engine by riding over an hour or so Mid day(220-f engine temp when stopping) Hot enough for my fans to kick on at every stop light. and ONLY after i stop the bike, turn it off and let it sit for 30 minutes (ie stoping for lunch)
- Pongo Exactly what should i be looking for in the oil (color, consistency) How do i check this (change the oil? Dip? just look at the "level indicator window?") The bike was dropped once very early in it's life and i did notice a smell for a long time which is just now going away. I was unable to have the service guys notice it, and was told it was most likely oil/coolant that saturated the pipes and needed to burn off. What smell should i be looking for, and how consistent would it be? The bike just had it's initial service (600 miles) and they said it had no problems. I'm just under 1000 miles so i'm still really close to the "Engine Break in" period. I've run it through it's paces, I kept it under 8k (as per manual) for the first 600 miles, and began increasing my RPM's in all gears after the initial service.
The bike rides great, and i've had no problems at all other than this predictable yet still random ignition situation. Also it has NOT happened in over 2 weeks now, but i'm not going to assume it fixed itself either.
Thank you all for your advice, I'm not a mechanic or pro in anyway i'm still learning about bikes in general so please be patient with my innexperience.
I will try to explain the process.
When i press the ignition button it attempts to start. It makes all the right noises, but does not actually "Catch" When it happens, it does not (lack of proper word) start, to the point where i can even give it gas.
Eventually after a few attempts it will "Fire" and i can attempt to twist the throttle, give it gas and get it to actually start.
The worst case i had to hold the throttle down for a few seconds to keep it from stalling.
Once it starts it has no problems, it's never turned off or even hiccuped on it's own.
- Flynrider, I live in Southern California and my dealer service department (where i bought the bike) said it was fine, and that it was vapor lock. (This has been suggested by others as well)
- BuzZz, I dont believe it's the battery simply because it's never acted like my car as far as low/dead battery (Granted i dont know enough about bikes to understand the difference in mechanics) Your "Fuel Injection Computer" theory sounds like it may be a possibility. It always starts eventually after a few attempts, and never has this problem under regular heating situations. it has ONLY had this issue 5 times over my 1000 Miles. each on different occasions and each occasion the exact same conditions. Hot day (75-90f) after i've heated the engine by riding over an hour or so Mid day(220-f engine temp when stopping) Hot enough for my fans to kick on at every stop light. and ONLY after i stop the bike, turn it off and let it sit for 30 minutes (ie stoping for lunch)
- Pongo Exactly what should i be looking for in the oil (color, consistency) How do i check this (change the oil? Dip? just look at the "level indicator window?") The bike was dropped once very early in it's life and i did notice a smell for a long time which is just now going away. I was unable to have the service guys notice it, and was told it was most likely oil/coolant that saturated the pipes and needed to burn off. What smell should i be looking for, and how consistent would it be? The bike just had it's initial service (600 miles) and they said it had no problems. I'm just under 1000 miles so i'm still really close to the "Engine Break in" period. I've run it through it's paces, I kept it under 8k (as per manual) for the first 600 miles, and began increasing my RPM's in all gears after the initial service.
The bike rides great, and i've had no problems at all other than this predictable yet still random ignition situation. Also it has NOT happened in over 2 weeks now, but i'm not going to assume it fixed itself either.
Thank you all for your advice, I'm not a mechanic or pro in anyway i'm still learning about bikes in general so please be patient with my innexperience.
07 GSX-R 600
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flynrider
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Vapor lock is what happens when the fuel in the fuel lines boils from excessive heat. Generally, you see it in the summertime, when the high outside air temperatures combine with the heat coming off the engine to boil the fuel. Fuel lines are generally routed with enough clearance to keep the engine heat from boiling the fuel in normal temperatures. If you're getting vapor lock in the winter months, then there's got to be a problem with your fuel line routing. The design from the factory would be such that vapor lock should not occur in the relatively mild temperatures that you've been experiencing.Patient wrote:
- Flynrider, I live in Southern California and my dealer service department (where i bought the bike) said it was fine, and that it was vapor lock. (This has been suggested by others as well)
If it is vapor lock and it's happening now, you're not going to be happy come summer.
Bikin' John
'93 Honda CB750 Nighthawk
'93 Honda CB750 Nighthawk
Yeah thats why i'm here trying to get advice...something just doesn't seem right.
Regardless i "F-ing wrecked my bike tonight...
I'll post the whole story on the forums later, but for now heres what happened.
I was traveling 20-30mph with my roomate 20 yrds behind me. We had just made a right turn on to the street. I saw a car on my right signaled to make a left turn, she was stopped. She inched forward and stopped again, I continued to pass as i had right of way and assumed she saw us. Not that I don't always, but luckily i was paying full attention and noticed the instant the car decided it could make a turn in front of me.
My choices were: T bone her car...or slam on my breaks. Knowing full well my wheels would lock I took the path of lesser evils...sure enough, back wheel locked first, then the front....and down i went.
Snapped my back break peg clean off and mangled the entire right side of the bike...and somehow destroyed the Left mirror too.
I walked away with a bruised hip and knick on my boots. Damn lucky
Cops found her at fault without questioning my story. ( I had a witness 20 yrds behind me thank god) Tow truck came and the only piece of my bike that came home with me was the Break peg...
Needless to say it's going to be in the shop a while, I'll be sure to have the ignition problem looked into.
Regardless i "F-ing wrecked my bike tonight...
I'll post the whole story on the forums later, but for now heres what happened.
I was traveling 20-30mph with my roomate 20 yrds behind me. We had just made a right turn on to the street. I saw a car on my right signaled to make a left turn, she was stopped. She inched forward and stopped again, I continued to pass as i had right of way and assumed she saw us. Not that I don't always, but luckily i was paying full attention and noticed the instant the car decided it could make a turn in front of me.
My choices were: T bone her car...or slam on my breaks. Knowing full well my wheels would lock I took the path of lesser evils...sure enough, back wheel locked first, then the front....and down i went.
Snapped my back break peg clean off and mangled the entire right side of the bike...and somehow destroyed the Left mirror too.
I walked away with a bruised hip and knick on my boots. Damn lucky
Cops found her at fault without questioning my story. ( I had a witness 20 yrds behind me thank god) Tow truck came and the only piece of my bike that came home with me was the Break peg...
Needless to say it's going to be in the shop a while, I'll be sure to have the ignition problem looked into.
07 GSX-R 600
Firstly, sorry to hear about your mishap, the most important thing is you are okay. Hopefully your starting problem will be dealt with when everything else is being fixed.
But……
I’ve been interpreting your posts as if the engine is hard to crank/turn over when warm/hot. Is this correct? If not then the fuel/ oil thing is most likely not the problem.
If fuel is getting into your engine oil you will see your oil level rise over time. So if your engine seems to be ‘making’ oil that would be the most likely cause.
If the oil smells of gasoline then that is most likely the problem, the oil would also feel thin if rubbed between your fingers, don’t check it when hot.
The reason I would be looking at this, as a possible problem, is that on an earlier post (on the newb forum) you said that after the 600 mile service things seemed okay for a while, then the problem started again…Therefore new engine oil gradually gets saturated with gasoline and the problem resurfaces. It’s so easy to check and you don’t need a mechanic to do it for you.
I would imagine the mechanic would have tested your electrical system and done diagnostics on ignition and fuel injection modules and would have tested any other switches, like coolant or tip over switches, you may have. Not that they mightn’t be the problem. Ask the mechanic what he tested.
Some ignition and injection modules can heat after a run and need time to cool before operating properly again. Only fix is replacement.
Good luck and keep us posted.
But……
I’ve been interpreting your posts as if the engine is hard to crank/turn over when warm/hot. Is this correct? If not then the fuel/ oil thing is most likely not the problem.
If fuel is getting into your engine oil you will see your oil level rise over time. So if your engine seems to be ‘making’ oil that would be the most likely cause.
If the oil smells of gasoline then that is most likely the problem, the oil would also feel thin if rubbed between your fingers, don’t check it when hot.
The reason I would be looking at this, as a possible problem, is that on an earlier post (on the newb forum) you said that after the 600 mile service things seemed okay for a while, then the problem started again…Therefore new engine oil gradually gets saturated with gasoline and the problem resurfaces. It’s so easy to check and you don’t need a mechanic to do it for you.
I would imagine the mechanic would have tested your electrical system and done diagnostics on ignition and fuel injection modules and would have tested any other switches, like coolant or tip over switches, you may have. Not that they mightn’t be the problem. Ask the mechanic what he tested.
Some ignition and injection modules can heat after a run and need time to cool before operating properly again. Only fix is replacement.
Good luck and keep us posted.