Should Anyone Join the Military

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kali · #1 Unread post by **kali** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 3:44 am

NOTE FROM THE MODERATOR - this post was split out of the "Brother in Afaghanistan" thread from Loonette. ...

If you have complaints - send them to Mike - the owner of Totalmotorcycle - his user name is totalmotorcycle. Thank you.

******

No complaints.

Didn't mean to edit your reason. I thought this would post at the end of thread.

Johnj · #2 Unread post by **Johnj** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:12 am

I'll bet your glad they protect your freedom of speech.

jonnythan · #3 Unread post by **jonnythan** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:20 am

Johnj wrote:I'll bet your glad they protect your freedom of speech.

Read the post.

He's not anti-military. He clearly states that we should have a military and its purpose should be to defend the United States of America.

However, he also says that the military is being used for purposes far removed from the defense of the nation, and that people are being killed and homes being destroyed because of it.

#4 Unread post by **dr_bar** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:47 am

Yup, do away with all volunteers, that's a great idea....

Then, you'll just have to deal with the "DRAFT" board...

Who cares if people that don't want to join would then have to join...

"...this is not a shared burden."said another draft supporter, Rep. Charles Rangel of New York...

"Who is doing all of the fighting?" Hagel(Chuck Hagel R-Neb.) asked. "Should we continue to burden the middle class who represents most all of our soldiers, and the lower middle class ... burden them with the fighting and the dying if in fact this is a generational — probably 25-year war?"

"It's not a shared burden," said Sen. Joseph Biden, D-Del., noting that most Americans have sacrificed little through the Afghan and Iraq wars that started after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the United States.

The military drafted conscripts during the Civil War, both world wars and between 1948 and 1973. The Selective Service System was reincorporated in 1980 to maintain a registry of 18-year-old men...

Nibblet99 · #5 Unread post by **Nibblet99** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:49 am

Wow... just wow

Firstly just to add my perspective here:
Do I think our troops should be in Iraq?
I feel until I have all the information available to our government at the time, how can I possibly make that judgement call myself. Infact, its rather stupid to judge people without knowledge of all the facts surrounding their decisions.

My perspective on soldiers?
Thanks to all the soldiers, for putting their lives on the line for something they believe in (I very much doubt any have any disillusions to this fact that their lives are indeed in jepordy in military life) Thats a sacrifice many can't even comprehend how to make. Any other discussion as to what they actually do is a political question NOT a military one. Politics is where those orders come from.

And as to your post....
Why the hell are you just copying and pasting someone elses propagander here of all places? This is first and foremost a motorcycle website. Reread what you've posted with an analytical view of the wording. It is designed to cause a reaction, with no references listed, no differentiation between actual & inferred knowledge, or a balance of perspective. This is propagander in its purest form, exactly the same type as a government churns out after any major disaster threatening their majority vote.

If you cared to post your own views based on your own conclusions drawn from unbiased sources, maybe someone here would have a reasonable debate with you about this. But you've just set this up for a lot of flaming, on an inappropriate website.

If you care to talk motorcycles for a change, I'll happily converse in any of the main M/C forums. Otherwise I (as I suspect are many others) am no longer interested. I would suggest that prehaps you should keep this kind of prococative stuff to a more suited website.... you appear to have included 2 ideal ones in your copied and pasted post

Have a nice day now.

jonnythan · #6 Unread post by **jonnythan** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:54 am

Our military is currently being used in ways that go far beyond national defense.

Our soldiers are being sent off to fight and die in conflicts that have virtually nothing whatsoever to do with the security of the United States.

That's reason enough for me not to join the military.

There. Now you can argue with my words, since they came from my fingers.

flynrider · #7 Unread post by **flynrider** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:34 am

Kali,

All I ever see from you are these repetitious political posts. When was the last time you posted anything about motorcycles? Why are you here?

#8 Unread post by **Sev** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:21 am

So, I'm kind of bored here and even though I know that I should stay away from this thread I cannot help myself. I must throw my two pesos into this mix.

But before I start tossing around monetary opinions I feel obligated to point out that I live in Canada (for those that don't already know). A place that maintains an active military. However, said military is substantially smaller then that of the states and seems to be better geared towards peace keeping or defense then offensive actions. Having said that, I like to think that I might be considered something of a... third party perspective. The outsider sees the whole picture and all that.

Yes, I think that people should join the military.

First, as an individual some people are... directionless. They need the discipline and order that only a military (or prison) life can offer. They learn respect for those around them, love for their country and their own personal limits so far as their ability to accomplish a task. Teamwork and putting the group before the individual are a common theme in a military life. All things that I think can only improve someone's character.

Second, those individuals who would sacrifice themselves in order to join the military are doing a great favor to those of us who did not. Similar to police they have dedicated their lives to service to others. There is no... nobler position in my not so humble opinion. I respect and thank those brave few who would choose to put themselves in that roll. And I will do whatever I can to support them in that.

Third, it is VERY easy to say that we shouldn't have people in the military when we aren't involved in a conflict... we don't need them. BUT that doesn't mean that everyone else feels that way. Until we can become united in a global government with global goals and happiness, with no civil unrest can there truely be a reason to set aside arms. The fact that we don't want to fight doesn't mean we don't need to be able to defend ourselves.

Now, you're trying to argue that the American Military is being used in a non-defensive manner. This is based upon your full knowledge of the situation in Iraq? I have to ask, what level of military clearance do you carry that you have such an overwhelming knowledge of what exactly is going on over there? The reason you have a government is for the few to make decisions to protect the many.

Now I've recently seen what appears to be an abuse of that power, but that's neither here nor there.

Regardless, I can see how an action like having soldiers in Iraq can be a defensive tactic. And the point stands that America was attacked first.

Then again, I don't have access to all the info either, so what do I actually know?

kali · #9 Unread post by **kali** » Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:23 am

flynrider wrote:Kali,

All I ever see from you are these repetitious political posts. When was the last time you posted anything about motorcycles? Why are you here?

Fair question.

I'm hoping for the perfect 750 - 900cc all around do all in the 70s - 80s tradition. As an ex Air Force F4 Phantom Crew Chief and motorcycle mechanic, I am always interested in all things mechanical.

I visit technical pages and threads without comment, skip inane personal threads, and feel moved to comment on war threads. In my current employ as a Med-flight neonatal and pediatric respiratory therapist also holding a nursing degree, my background gives me deep insight into the causes and cost of what I think is the single most important issue occurring at this time.

My post are completely appropriate and confined to 'The Soap Box'. I don't troll threads injecting this commentary on others. I understand the psychologic and sociologic forces that affect how you and others react to my post.

Note that I say, "to my post". Always remember that we are all good people here sharing a common denominator, motorcycles. I am sure we would all have a blast riding together. But know that I work with burned and mangled kids every day. Also know that I have taken the time to study the history of the Middle East. I will speak against any pro-war meme or supporting meme whenever I can.

I suggest everyone here Google "Peak Oil" and "Great Game". Read about resource depletion, especially oil, and its ramifications on the US with 5% of worlds population and 25% of its energy use. Learn what DECREASING oil production in a world of increasing demand and decreasing oil exports are going to do to the West and understand fully the implications of Dick Cheney's statement "our way of life is non-negotiable". Our way of life is the automobile and suburbia. It will soon be something very different. These men will and are killing to preserve it.

The green revolution is based on petroleum fertilizers and mechanical farming. Don't forget to include food for fuel scams and increasing carnivorous diets in Asia when trying to understand increasing global starvation when it hits the news.

And lastly, The Great Game. The history of Africa and the Middle East has always been artificial boundaries drawn by Western governments to purposefully divide tribes and cultures while creating, promoting, and supporting dysfunctional and corrupt governments - the chaos making resource extraction and labor exploitation all the more profitable.

Again, Google "The Great Game" and "Peak Oil" learn something.

jonnythan · Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:38 am

I don't need "government clearance" to believe that starting an armed conflict with a foreign nation that posed no immediate threat to the US was not a proper use of the US military.